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brake hangin up
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:23 pm
by oldblue2
I haven't had the need to ask any questions for a year now . The tractor starts and has been running great . Thanks for all the terrific advise . I have a problem with one of the brakes hanging up . I wasn't able to pull the tractor out from the under the barn which is a good thing it 's under cover and out of the elements . What can I expect to see with this . I read that one fella had to do some welding to get his frozen brake off the axle .Should I expect the same ? Any part illustrations of the brakes ? I don't which brake system it has . Just got everything jacked up and getting started on pulling the wheel . Thanks in advance .
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:15 pm
by oehrick
Is it the earlier type with drum brakes set out from the body or later Super with disk brakes in ribbed housings tucked close to the body ?
If it has a handbrake lever (I don't think they were so common on export models) these are a transmission brake and if driven 'on' have a nast reputation for friction welding - hope its not this
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:14 am
by Brian
Easy way to tell what brakes you have, drums behind the wings, (fenders) = shoe brakes, housings close to the rear axle = disc brakes.
Sticking brakes is a common problem on both types especially if the tractor is not used often. Even with new brake shoes, springs and linkage. I find that after winter storage one or both brakes will stick and I have to rock the tractor backwards and forwards to get them to free off. Ann's Ford Cougar car does the same thing with the disc brakes on the rear axle, that has been into the garage many times for that problem.
The disc brakes are bad for either grabbing or sticking and even come on when you are driving. I have them on my Nuffield, the same as Super Major ones. I have replaced discs, actuating balls, return springs and it seems to work for a couple of weeks then goes back to sticking again. A little rust on the splines where the brake discs fit can be a problem.
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:05 am
by oldblue2
I had a look and they are disc brakes . My problem is this tractor has a backhoe attachment . I can remove the outer inspection cover to inspect the brakes . But I don't see any way to remove the brake housing . It doesn't appear to have enough room to slide the housing off of the splines with the backhoe accessory attached . Also the adjusting screws for both brakes are froze up . I could try a double nut on the threads that are exposed and apply heat to them . The right hand brake that is bound up and already has the adjusting screw all the way out . When I bought the tractor a couple of years ago the right brake was stuck and I loosened up the adjuster all the way out then . I remember we had two trucks one pulling forward and the other backwards to get the brake to free up . I never readjusted the brakes after that . So my question today is . What is the easiest way to access the housing . Or do you think I can make any progress by only removing the cover only . Thanks again ! Mark
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:39 pm
by sandymac
You do not need to take off the whole brake housing. If you can get the cover off you than should be able to pull out the outer lined brake disc. Next you have to take out the actuator parts. after the actuator is out, you will get access to the inner lined brake disc.
Make sure the splined bull pinion shaft is as clean as possible or you will struggle to get the lined brake discs off of it.
All fairly easy with the wheel removed.
Sandy
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:10 am
by oldblue2
Thanks Sandy . I've been dragging my feet on this . I was not looking forward to what I perceived as being a huge PIA job .
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:08 am
by Brian
As Sandy says it is not too bad to get the brakes apart, I had a problem with the inner disc rusted to the housing and on the spline but if you have been driving your tractor you should be OK.
You should also free off the little adjusting screw in the bottom of the brake housing if you can. This is used to adjust the brake expanders, I will look up the setting and post later.
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:41 pm
by oldblue2
It wasn't to bad . I have the outer disc off . There was a lot of cleaning and pre cleaning going on . One bolt for the fender required heat . I did have to remove a upper support bar or link for the backhoe attachment . I read in the manual the adjusting screw is snug then back out 1 1/2 turns . With the outer disc off and cover I can rotate the axle . I never did one of these before . It's a pretty cool set up . With the center plate acting like a clutch pressure plate and grabbing both disc . I'm assuming there may be a slight oil leak . Nothing pouring out when I removed the cover . But the disc seamed a little gummy . Looked like the drain hole in the bottom the housing was plugged up also . I'm going to clean everything back up and cross my fingers that's all I'll have to do . I think I've used this for 4 or 5 years with it brake on the right being touchy . So hopefully I get another 4 or 5 with out having to do to much to them . She has been one good tractor . When I get thru with her I hope to take her to the salon and get her painted up . Not bad for a 54 year old girl . Thanks for all the post and photos .
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:05 pm
by AdrianNPMajor
There are for and against arguments about using copper ease/ copper grease.
I'm in the 'for' camp in this particular situation.
Having got this far, Mark, I'd go one step further and remove the brake housing. This would enable you to replace the 50+ year old seal. It would also allow you access to the splines of the bull pinion. Give them a good wire brushing, then apply copper grease.
Dismantle the brake expanders and apply some copper grease to the ball bearings.
Reassemble using new discs.
Best, Adrian.
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:51 pm
by mathias1
AdrianNPMajor wrote:There are for and against arguments about using copper ease/ copper grease.
I'm in the 'for' camp in this particular situation.
Having got this far, Mark, I'd go one step further and remove the brake housing. This would enable you to replace the 50+ year old seal. It would also allow you access to the splines of the bull pinion. Give them a good wire brushing, then apply copper grease.
Dismantle the brake expanders and apply some copper grease to the ball bearings.
Reassemble using new discs.
Best, Adrian.
Hello Adrian,
Any chance you have a picture of placing the seal? Is it the best way to put it first on the shaft, or on the brake housing?
thanks!
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:00 am
by Brian
Seal goes in the brake housing.
Copper ease, I have used it and found that it collects dust and makes the brakes stick after a short time so I used dry graphite on the balls. Best results I have had is with new balls and springs in the actuator plus a very good clean of the splines on the bull pinion shafts.
The brake grabbing and sticking problem has been there on these type of brakes for the past 50 plus years on various models of different makes so it seems to be inherent with the brake design. There does not seem to be a certain cure except regular cleaning and not allowing a dust build up.
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:15 am
by oldblue2
Well finally on my forth attempt I removed the inner brake disc . I had soaked the splines with PB blaster when ever I walked by the tractor . I ended up bring my air hammer from work home and it finally broke loose . I used a die grinder and cut the disc almost thru to the splines on the shaft . Then vibrated the disc off . I bent three of my Chinese pry bars before bring the air hammer home . It great to have the brakes working properly for the first time since I've owned this machine . I used her yesterday to open up a neighbor hood ditch that has been plugged up . Thumbs up from the neighbors , along with how old is that tractor . I need to start a new post for the tilt valve for the front bucket . It is working slow . I'll have to say I am never seize advocate .
Re: brake hangin up
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:10 pm
by mathias1
Hello,
found this from a previous topic to set up the brake adjustments:
Brake adjustment on the Super is straight forward. First slacken the self-locking pull nut in the linkage so that the brake pedal goes right down and there is nothing pulling on the linkage. adjust the screw on the bottom of the brake housing until it is up tight then back off 1 and 1/2 turns, then tighten the lock nut.
Place a 1/2" (13mm) block of wood between the upper side of the pedal and the foot plate. Adjust the self-locking pull nut until the pedal can just be eased off the block. Only take up the free play,do not overtighten. The pedal should feel springy.
Repeat on the other side.
Test by locking the pedals together, drive forward in first gear at about 1300 rpm. Apply the brakes with your foot in the centre of the two pedals. If she pulls to one side or the other tighten the pull nut on the opposite side until she pulls in a straight line.
After a time the brakes will tend to lock on when applied. This is a fault with all makes of tractor that use these Girling disc brakes. When this happens, strip out the brakes and clean out the dust from actuators and housings. Be careful, the dust may contain asbestos.
is this the right place to put the wooden block?
