Exhaust valve rotator cap missing

[BIGMIKE]

I'm in the middle of decoking my cylinder head at the minute and one of my rotator caps is missing and so far I'm struggling to find a replacement so just wondering if anyone has any suggestions or is it a case of put it back how it was and adjust the tappet for no cap?
Mike

[Fordson 60]

Sounds formiliar.
I was also missing one of the caps.
I hoped to find it somwhere in the engine but no luck als could not find a replacement so i got rid of all the caps and adjusted the tappets to no cap.

Ronald

[Brian]

It would not just be a matter of leaving off the cap and setting the valve, this could cause the valve to fail. The caps push down on the cotters as much as the valve head. When no caps are used a different valve with a longer stem, spring retainer and cotters are used.

Most aftermarket suppliers supply the valves for no caps as standard as these were used in the trucks and other applications right up to the 1990's.

A number of other engines use the caps, Nuffield and some Fergusons spring to mind.

Tappet setting without the cap is 0.015".

[Fordson 60]

Brian.

I did not no about the diverence in valve stem...
But i had my head skimd en seats reground also new valves, springs and guides.

So with the aftermarket valves i should be okay i guess....

Can the caps be bought new? I could not find them anywere.
You would have a nice job lapping them to the free play acording the fordson manual.

Ronald

[Brian]

Ronald, If you have valves for rotator caps, you must have caps.

Aftermarket valves for no caps have different valve retainers and spring retainers, the valve stem is longer and the spring retainer groove in the stem is a different shape.

So if you can use the original retainers with your valves then you really should have caps.

[BIGMIKE]

I'll hope it might drain out with the oil but I think I maybe clutching at straws! I think I'll see if I can have one machined up by a local engineering company seeing as they don't sound easy to come by.
You dont by any chance have your old ones do you ronald?

[Fordson 60]

Yes i stil got the old ones but i gues ill hang on to them until i find another one......
I wil run her without the rotator caps until i find it.
She did run for along time with a cap missing it was showing in the wear on the rocker.
The ones with cap having a smoot surface the one without cap had a round imprint wear into it just like the inlet rockers did.
I made them al smoot again so nothing is going to run on old edges.

We will see when and where we will find the caps.

Ronald

[BIGMIKE]

As a couple of my valve guides are worn and the valve seats need cutting I thought I might as well buy a kit of new valves, guides & springs but I can see what Brian means about the aftermarket valves being different and not needing the rotator caps, the problem is they only seem to list early and late valves but non come with different spring retainer caps to replace the rotator cap ones or does it all go back together with the old ones and original collets?
Mike

[Brian]

No, because the collets and retainers are different. The collets are the same as the inlet valves. Agriline list the valve as the early type but it actually lasted longer than the rotator cap one. They also do the collets but no where do they list the valve cap/retainer.

Another small point to note. Make sure you install the valve springs the right way up, the closer coils go towards the cylinder head.

[BIGMIKE]

Ok thanks Brian so even if I ordered the early valve kit and new inlet collets it wouldn't work without me getting new spring retainer caps from somewhere? I can't even just replace the valve guides as I think they are different aren't they for the rotator cap ones?
It's turning into an absolute nightmare and with the reconditioned pump and injectors costing me a lot more than I'd planned my first tractor project is not going well.

[Brian]

There must be some caps out there on a scrap engine, there were hundreds of them built. They are not on truck engines but, as I said, Nuffields had them. Try Ron Greet, Tractor Parts, sorry do not have his contact details but Google him.

[BIGMIKE]

Brian do you mean the rotator caps or the spring retaining caps?
The rotator caps I've asked an engineering company to make me a new one to replace the missing one but I thought if I ordered a new valve kit with valves, springs &guides I would need new spring retaining caps to suit the early valves and then do away with the rotator caps anyway? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
Do you know if the standard valve guides listed will work with what I have now or will I need them modifying if I keep the rotator caps style valves as If I can get a new set of guides I'll just have my original valves re-ground and that will do

[Brian]

If you fit the early valves you will need retainers for the collets and a longer valve spring or a spacer.

Your best course of action is to stick with what you have and find a rotator cap. Not sure about getting one made as they are very hard material. The rotator cap presses on the valve collets not the head of the valve and pushes the spring down rather than the valve, this is why you cannot just leave the cap off. If you do there is a good chance that the collets may fly out and drop the valve.

[BIGMIKE]

Sorry Brian think I've confused matters the rotator cap I can get made and case hardened but I have just spoke to a guy about buying a 2nd hand head that has few bits missing does include a couple of rotator cap though.

My main issue is when I stripped the head I found a couple of worn valve guides so thought while it's stripped I'll buy one of the valve kits but the trouble is nobody seems to have a clue what rotator cap valves are so can't supply a kit for my engine! My new plan is to buy an early valve kit and use the inlet parts from the 2nd hand head on the new early exhaust valves?
The other odd thing is the early kits are listed with 7 coil springs but i have the 8.5 ones that are listed in the late kits? I'm just hoping the valve guides are the same and my mix and match plan will work???
Please tell me it will Brian before I just shut the garage door for good on my tractor project!
Mike

[Brian]

Agriline do the kits, valves and both guides.
How are you going to fit the guides?
You could save money by getting an engine shop to fit guides as they may have different guides off the shelf. I have had all my heads fitted with new guides by my local engine shop, he tends to do it as standard when he cuts the seats and refaces the valves.

[BIGMIKE]

The engine builders said they'll fit the guides if I get them. I just need to know if I order the early kit will it work with the inlet vale retainer springs from this spare head and if I'll then need 8.5 coil springs or 7 coil springs.
Agriline are a waste of time and don't understand the valves that I have even after I've emailed them pictures.
I'm sick of banging my head against a brick wall with it so I might just order new guides and throw it back together with the old valves

[BIGMIKE]

Just to bring this to a an end in case anybody is searching in the future as I hate finding a thread with no outcome! Basically I couldn't find an answer on what to replace rotator type valves with, I was hoping Brian was onto something with the suggestion of using the earlier parts but obviously there wasn't a definite answer with that either and every company I spoke to didn't seem to even acknowledge the existence of rotator cap valves so in the end I had the machine shop recut the original valves and valve seats I then had a new hardened rotator cap made and all is now working fine. Thanks for the help anyway.
Mike

[Spicklas]

It is a bit late to butt in now, but if you want rotator caps, they can still be bought as aftermarket parts:

http://www.victoryfield.se/en/fordson/m ... major.html

I bought a set of these, and with new valves there was no need for lapping.