The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Earlier in 2016 I replaced one weeping half shaft seal which was easy enough. The problem was the seal and it's metal carrier rotated with the wheel and, started leaking once more due to the cork gasket rotating on the end of the trumpet housing

I've just fitted a new seal and exactly the same is happening
Has anybody else experienced this and how do I stop it rotating

Did you stake the tin housing into the groove on the axle shaft in three places, with a chisel?

I have done many, many of these with no problems but who knows what will happen with the seal housings from The Nearly Right Company from across the Irish Sea.

Did you remember to fit the cork seal that buts up against the flat face at the end of the trumpet?
Further to Brian's advice, make some hardwood wedges and bang them in between the seal tinwork and the axle hub. This will make sure that you have compressed the cork seal. Then crimp as per Brian's description.
Best, Adrian.

Brian, the first seal I fitted which rotated I assumed I'd missed what you mention. So the second seal I fitted last night I checked the trumpet casting and couldn't see or feel anything. The carrier/seal on the other side shows no evidence of it being locked into a notch
Adrian, the cork gasket is fitted but what I can't fathom is what pulls this up tight against the trumpet
Having spoken with a friend he too said he'd 'done loads' and hadn't experienced this, but I don't think he was offering to do mine....
There did appear to be an awful lot of wadding (in addition to the lip seal and cork gasket) and when I pressed the seal down onto the hub I could actually rotate the shaft simply by holding onto the seal carrier. I did think about binning all the wadding and relying upon the lip seal alone as this wadding seems to be the cause of the problem. As you say Brian, perhaps replacement parts aren't quite as good as the originals.

I have my two half shafts removed at the moment and the shafts sent away to get the tin work plus bearings replaced, I was wondering myself how to get this cork seal on real tight? I was planning on using some of that instant gasket from a tube? Would this be a good idea for your issue ?? Or a bad idea for any one to do !!????
Paudie

Ahh yes, the instant tube remedy When the first seal was rotating I did blob a little 'chemical metal' between the tin carrier and the trumpet. I realise this is a but it didn't work anyway. I then made a metal strap that fitted around the carrier and clamped it tight to the trumpet which worked, but I knew it was there and couldn't sleep at night

I guess (know) before the month is out I'll have it out again and do it once more, third time lucky!

I'm a fan of instant gasket, but in this particular situation I'd be wary of using it. When you wedge the seal housing up tight against the end of the trumpet there's a danger that any excess instant gasket may get squeezed up against the interface between the lip seal and the shaft. When the instant gasket cures, it might then interfere with the lip seal running on the shaft.
I stuck my cork gaskets in place with grease and so far, so good.
Best, Adrian.

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This is a picture of the seal housing fitted to the end of the axle housing and staked into the groove around the housing. Have not got a picture of the housing less seal but this should give you an idea of where to look. We used to put three of these stakes around the housing.

Grease will hold the cork in OK and I have never had to wedge the seal to the axle housing but it could help. Usually as you bend the stake into the groove it pulls the housing on to the cork.

Brian, I didn't know about staking the tin cover till we discussed it earlier in this post. I'll have to be sure to do it now !I don't see any dent: stake marks on the two tin covers I took out but I'll definitely do it now . Thanks again

Thank you Brian So the trumpet doesn't have a notch as such for me to hammer into.

Adrian, when you pressed your seal down the shaft did it just slip over the face that the lip seal runs on? When I tried to press mine down it pushed all the wadding and lip seal out of the tin carrier Which I then had to push back in and as stated previously, I could then rotate the whole shaft as it'd got such a grip on it.

I also think it's pretty incredible the amount of knowledge which flows from these pages, I may even buy the E27N P6 now

Paul

Two more images.
Easystart, the new seal should just push down by hand onto the wider diameter section of the half-shaft that abuts the hub. Brian wonders if you bought a duff seal; so do I!
Best, Adrian.

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Easystart, the new seal should just push down by hand onto the wider diameter section of the half-shaft that abuts the hub. Brian wonders if you bought a duff seal; so do I!
Best, Adrian.

Yes, I've been wondering that myself... So, the tractor's missing a half shaft once more and the seals en route, from a different supplier! I naturally assumed the seal coming form a Spare parts supplier based in Exeter it'd be a 'good un'. I'll let you know how I get on

Plenty of 'em say 'proper job' down there Paul but but they don't always do one

Well I brought my two half shafts in to a mate of mine who has a large press etc. As we examined the seal, tin work cork gasket,we failed to conclude as to what purpose the "wadding" actually serves??.would it not retain water in an area that you don't want water and damp to be kept or would it gather grit and sludge?? After all the oil seal should be enough to seal the trumpet. WE look forward to hearing from ye !
Regards Paudie

I can confirm that Brian's advice regarding 'staking' (see earlier in post) has indeed worked
Regarding the 'wadding', I agree, I couldn't work out what purpose it serves (other than keeping out water/dirt etc) hence why I mentioned earlier I was thinking of binning it. Other areas merely rely upon the lip seal
'Proper Job' Devon really, Somerset's more like 'we'll put that off till tomorrow'....

The lip seal points inwards and contains any oil that makes its way up the trumpet housing.
The felt wadding should be soaked in oil. It is there to prevent dust ingress from the outside.
Best, Adrian.

The felt wadding goes into the seal carrier before the seal and keeps out the grit and gunge. A lot of the seals on the tractor had it, the outer PTO seal was similar until they fitted a double lipped seal.

Well Exeter is still in Devon isn't it ? I was mocking the supplier, not the poor opressed tractor owner

oehrick wrote:Well Exeter is still in Devon isn't it ? I was mocking the supplier, not the poor opressed tractor owner

Yes! It's the 'Regional Capital' according to the sign.

Adrian, prior to staking the seal carrier I did indeed apply a bit of oil to the wadding to encourage it rotate without resistance. Staking and lubrication is the key, I'll have to write it down when the other side needs doing

A quick update I've the two rear wheel bearings and seals back on my FMD. I tightend the half shaft nuts up and put in the split pin. As instructed by the guys here I oiled the wadding and greese the cork gasket and staked in the tin oil seal housing . I could only close the gap between the trumpet and the tin housing to abou 3mm. I think there was a gap there before I removed the old ones. So wheels to be fitted and hydraulic cover to be lifted in and hopefully away we go

So Paudie, how are your seals holding up? As mentioned previously mine was successful, for the first two outings. After a 40 mile road run to a ploughing match I noticed the day after there's oil weeping from the cork seal again The carriers not rotating, it's staked as per advice, the trumpet face is good, it's beginning to get me down However, there's another seal on its way to me from a fourth different supplier now

Just wondering if the seal running surface has a groove worn in it where the lip sits.
Mine did so I used speedisleeves to remedy the situation. Not cheap (see link), but they work.
Best, Adrian.

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http://www.silverfoxtractorspares.com/f ... 4508-p.asp

Thankfully my half shaft seals are holding up and no leaks, you must be very frustrated at this stage as it's not an easy task to get them out every time,like Aidrian has said you might have to get the shaft looked at ?.If they are groves at the seal seating. Where I got my bearings pressed on to the shaft , they expressed a little concern as to the quality of the seating for my seal and suggested that maybe I take a skim off the shaft a mm or so and order new seals to match the new shaft diameter. I didn't do that but like everything in life I now know that such things can be done if needs be.

Regards Paudie