Super Major Valves.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:07 pm

Hi everyone, I have been restoring a Super Major over the last few months and one of my first jobs was grinding in new valves... So i did this and left the push rods out. Now i am putting the push rods back in, but I dont seem to get enough clearance on the inlet valves, if i turn the engine over through one revolution i am going to bend a push rod

... What have I done wrong? the trouble is it has been months since i touched them and so I cant remember all the fine details. here are some pics.
Many Thanks Chris.

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Post by **Brian** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:16 pm

Chris,

Have you got the push rods fully located in the cam followers? It is very easy to get them on the side of the casting rather than in the little pocket.

Are you using the "Rule of 9"? 8 down set 1, 7 down set 2 etc.

The best way is to slacken the adjusters right off, check that it turns then adjust them up.

Aussie Frank · Post by **Aussie Frank** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:02 pm

Hi Chris and Brian,

Just looking at the picture of the head and valves I could not help but notice that the spring caps on the intake valves are a long way down. Given the compression on the intake springs the valves would not be able to open properly. Is it possible that the caps on the intakes and exhaust valves have been mixed up. Just curious as I have never seen a set of valve springs look like those do in a working engine.

Regards, Frank.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:34 am

Thanks guys, I took a print of those pics to work today and gave them to a couple of mechanics to look at, they said that they look like i have put the spring seats on the intake valves, when they should be on the exhaust valves.... What do you think?

When i took it apart I am sure that I layed everything out on the bench the same way that it came out but I suppose that I could of mixed those seats up....

That would give me back an extra coil of the spring back and by the look of the wear marks on the head it does look like they should go on the other valves does'nt it?!?!?!?

Brian, I didnt use that rule but someone explained it to me at work so I will use it when i do it next time lol. Where abouts in Norfolk are you? im from Beccles.

Many Thanks Chris.

Aussie Frank · Post by **Aussie Frank** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:50 am

Hi Chris,

I tend to agree with your mechanic friends. The caps must be the wrong way arround. I suppose if there are two ways to do something, Murphy always dictates that you have to do it the wrong way first.

Regards, Frank.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:58 am

Yeah lol, I agree..

It does definatly look like that doesnt it.

Damn, new head gasket for me again then

Unless anyone knows of a way to compress the springs without taking the head off again?????

Thanks Chris

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:06 am

Chris
Without knowing exactly what you mean by enough clearance on the inlet valves,
there should also be rotator caps between the inlet valve stem and the rocker.
I just went out and took the valve cover off my spare motor to check
Let me know if you need photo's
Kiwi Kev

Post by **Brian** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:08 am

You have got the spacer on the bottom of the springs on the inlet valve and it should be on the exhaust valve. The spring caps are different so you cannot get them wrong.

Rotator caps only go on the exhaust valves for home production but are fitted on all valves for some export markets. (Don't ask why, I don't know).

Another point to watch, the valve springs have wide coils and narrow coils if you look at them closely. Narrow coils go to the head.

Yes you can strip the valve springs without taking the head off. I made a flat bar with a slot to go over the valve spring. At the other end, a hook to hook over a manifold bolt. Turn the cylinder to TDC, apply pressure and the valve will be stopped from moving by the piston. Bobs your uncle!

DO NOT turn the engine when the springs are off otherwise you will loose the valves down the bore. Do one cylinder at a time.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:16 am

great Brian, you are great...

Pics would be good if possible Kev

Many Thanks To Everyone Chris

Kiwi Kev · Post by **Kiwi Kev** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:53 pm

Chris
Here are the photo's for you.
Cylinder no 1 is on left, and valves are exhaust, inlet, inlet,exhaust, exhaust, inlet,inlet, exhaust.

Brian looks to be right( he's always right) about the spacer on the bottom of the exhaust spring.
Mine will be an export engine and has rotator caps on both exhaust and inlet, so what Brian said about rotator caps only being on exhaust (in the UK) could well be right.
They don't call him "Brian the Brain" for nothing

Kiwi Kev[/img]

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:12 pm

Thanks Kev, they are great...

Looks like im missing rotator caps for the inlet valves...

They definatly were not there when i took it apart, so im guessing I can allow for that when adjusting the rocker arms????????

......Just realised that Brian had already answered this question for me lol.

Thanks Again....

Post by **Brian** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:56 pm

This is the tool I used to get the valves out of Nuffy when I had to change the stem seals. Does not have a hook to attach to the manifold bolt because Nuffy has a nice ledge to work under.

Sorry about the workshop bench being cluttered and not pristine.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:31 pm

Thanks Brian, I had an engineer at work make me a tool today during his spare time, it looks a bit different to yours but if it works I will take a picture and post it so that if anyone else has a problem they can use it to make their own, it is fairly similar to yours really though.

What is the firing order on a Super Major? 1 - 4 - 3 -2????
Will probably use the rule of 9 that you said about yesterday though.

Chris

Eric Schulz · Post by **Eric Schulz** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:33 am

Another trick that I have used to replace a broken valve spring without removing the head or manifold - this was on a petrol engine - was to put compressed air in the combustion chamber. An old spark plug body with an airline fitting attached did the job. The compressed air holds the valve against its seat. You have to use caution, of course.
This should work on a diesel just as well.

Eric

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:42 am

The compressed air trick works well on a petrol engine but an even simpler way is to draw the piston down to the bottom of its stroke and then thread in a length of clean fine braid nylon rope through the spark plug or injector hole until it won't take any more(a 3 foot length should be more than enough), then crank the engine around by hand so the rope is compressed against the head(and the face of the valves). You can then be sure the valve cannot fall into the cylinder when you release the lock. When the valve lock is reinstalled, hand crank the engine back and pull out the rope. Make sure the rope is clean and very flexible(especially CLEAN). I will make myself one of Brians tools very soon-a GREAT idea!

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:17 am

UPDATE: My tool worked but now i have swapped the bottom cap over i cant get the collet in on the exhaust valve, if i remember correctly this is why i thought the cap went on the inlets....
I have tried an old spring but its not happening for me, the spring is not fully compressed and i cant see anything snagging it, i suppose the tool could be bending the spring slightly, so it is making it snag on the valve????

to make things worse i have just dropped a collet on the floor somewhere in a load of shot

and agriline don't stock collets anymore.

anyone know where i can get collets from?

Thanks Chris

Meanderer · Post by **Meanderer** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:06 pm

Chris,
I've refrained from commenting on your problem because sometimes I misunderstand what people are describing or their terminology. Usually happens when I'm over tired or had a couple of drinks!

Anyway, no drink tonight but I am very tired. However, what I noticed 2 nights ago is still evident to me tonight.

I had noticed that you had the spacers back to front but I also thought it was obvious that you had the springs back to front as well. Count the number of coils in each. Even though Kev's have a different number again, you can see instantly that they have a balanced look about them. It's the opposite way around on yours at present.

Can't understand fully why you can't find the collet? Can't you use a good magnet through the shot??? Or even a sieve maybe.

Good luck and I hope she purs like a kitten when you get her back together. You haven't given us any idea as to what extent you have reconditioned her.

Rick

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:41 pm

Hi Rick, Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated.

I have got a big magnet somewhere i will find it up.

Before Restoration:

After Paint:

Am i correct in thinking that this is supposed to be blue/orange and not blue/white?
I will get the serial number later and post it if anyone can work out the age.

I will do a new topic with all of the pictures that i have taken once it is complete.

Please excuse all the junk in the background / dust on paintwork lol.
Thanks Chris

Eric Schulz · Post by **Eric Schulz** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:42 am

Kim, I had not heard of the rope-in-the-cylinder trick. Sounds better than compressed air to me.

Eric

Post by **Brian** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:00 am

I think she is a bit of an ASP

.

The front wheels come from an FMD. If they were Super, they would have three holes. The block has been replaced, that is a New Performance Super block but she has an Orange wheeled Super injectiomn pump. Has she got FL cast into the head just above the pump?

I have a feeling that the lift is New performance too. Could you get a clearer picture of the front of it. Has it got a metal Knob on the front?

Your best bet for dating could be the casting codes on all the parts other than the engine, if that has been replaced. The correct number may not have been transfered.

Meanderer · Post by **Meanderer** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:06 am

Brian,
Can you clarify about the springs?
I was just a few minutes ago reading that the inlet and exhaust springs are supposed to be interchangeable. (From your destested IT manual). I don't want to go into the whole explanation they give but they say that there were two type springs, early and later replacements. The later requiring mods to the head if used on early head.

Rick

Post by **Brian** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:43 am

Exhaust and inlet are the same spring.

Valve springs changed in 1961 from E1ADKN 6513 B to E1ADDN 6513 at the same time as the single bolt fixing cam shaft. The earlier ones should not be used on engines after 1961.

The earlier valves had 8.5 coils and the later ones 7.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:00 am

At last I have got the valves back together in the right way, and it doesnt try to bend any push rods YIPPEE

I was right about the spring bending slightly causing the top cap to foul on the valve stem.

I used a combination on a conventional valve spring compressor and my tool which i had made and it worked a treat, now to find the other half of that elusive collet, i have gone round with a magnet and sieved through all of the shot but no joy

We have a salvage yard a few miles away which sells tractors / tractor parts but usually when you want to buy something he wont sell it.... so i will give him a try. Oh why do small pieces of metal have to bounce so far?????

Brian ASP????
where abouts is FL?

Thanks Chris

Post by **Brian** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:29 pm

Chris,

Fordson Super Major ASP= All Spare Parts

If you can't see "FL" on the head, you have not got it therefore you had an orange wheeled Super engine originally.

skateboss · Post by **skateboss** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:15 pm

I had an eventfull day yesterday....

I went to that tractor place, and like i said he wont sell anything lol, but he gave me a phone number, it turns out this bloke lives just round the corner from me and he has about 30 tractors "most of which Super Majors" and he had a spare engine sitting there which he gave me a collet from and he also has a nice looking set of super major front wheels for me to pick up when i get to that part

he has also got loads of cheap hey for my horses so im kind of thinking that fate made me loose that collet HAHAHA

Thanks Chris

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