The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Hi, I've recently bought what appears to be a prototype super major, most of the tractor is power major and dates to 59 or early 1960. It has super major tombstone, hydraulic top cover and disc brakes but none of these have the usual cast in date marks or even enfo markings. It has a few unusual options like power steering, DAR valve and export check chains fitted. The engine is fitted with a minimech pump but dates from 1960. It has Rainham painted on the block which was apparently the Ford testing department. I was told by the previous owner that it cane from a scrapyard in Dagenham having been disposed of by ford as an ex test tractor but until I started digging into it this seemed unlikely. I'll add some pictures when I get a chance, just wondered if anyone has any early pictures of testing being done on super majors?

Sure would be fun to see photos.

Hello

It will be interesting to see some pictures of your tractor!

You say it has a minimec pump but that the engine dates from 1960. Does the engine have a serial number and if so what is it?
If the engine has no number then presumably your dating is from the casting codes on the block and head (they should be within a few days of each other), so the engine must have been modified at some point to a minimec pump as the minimec was not even released by Simms until late 1961, and was not adopted onto the Super Major engine until April 1962. The engine blocks were modified at engine number 1613500 in August 1961 ready for the fitting of the new minimec pump and this minimec pump cannot be fitted to blocks made before that number.

If you look on page 128 of Stuart Gibbard's "The Ford Tractor Story Part 1, Dearborn to Dagenham", there is a picture of an experimental Power Major on test ploughing in Wales in May 1960. The tractor is fitted with draft control hydraulics. The front tombstone is obscured by weights but looks to be a standard Power Major tombstone. The front wheel centres look a bit different to the normal! You will note that the footplate assemblies are high up and with the intermediate step as on the Super Major. This suggests that although the front end of the tractor is Power Major, the rear end must be fitted with disc brakes ( and presumably differential lock ) as well as draft control hydraulics.

The tractor has a registration number 121 LVX which is an Essex number. I have used Essex County Council vehicle record archives in the past and they are quite detailed, so it should be possible to get the serial number of the tractor shown in the picture.

Are you sure that the explanation for your particular tractor is not something as simple as a Super Major fitted with a Power Major bonnet and badges?


Post some pictures of your tractor as soon as you can, together with the serial number stamped on the engine if it has one.!

Hi, sorry not managed to get any pictures on yet, its been so long since I last uploaded any I cant remember how you get them up. I have been sending details of the tractor to Allan Condie and he is certain that my tractor came from Mudlands, this was Fords experimental farm as I understand it.
My tractor has 2 reg. plates, one riveted over the other, the one underneath is 883EVX, the one on top is 599PHK. Most of the castings date to early 1959. The serial number is strange on the logbook, doesn't resemble any of the usual fordson ones, Allan recognises it as a prototype serial# and date 04/59.
None of the super major bits have any casting marks whatsoever, it has super major top cover, disc brakes and front tombstone. The main backend, axle trumpets, gearbox all date to 58-59.
Allan suspects it was initially used to prototype the super major, later being used with an industrial engine to trial the minimech pump set-up.
It also has a later type starter which I assumed was fitted later in life, this is however dated sept. '59 so could also have been trialled by Ford, it has been well fitted with a 'horn' button fitted neatly on the top dashboard, not the sort of thing you normally see bodged in place.
It has a few extras such as power steering and a DAR valve fitted. It also has tin front wheels and export spec rear check chains.
The front cowling has a number painted on it each side which Allan says would be the prototype ID number. It has 'rainham' painted on the engine block and cylinder head which was the ford experimental dept. apparently near Mudlands farm. The gearbox has a large white X painted on it also. The whole tractor has been overpainted in blue but this layer has peeled off in places to reveal various things painted underneath. The front cowl is shaped to match the super tombstone but has only ever had the early type badge fitted. There are some stickers on either side of the bonnet, I need to try and remove the paint from these to see what they have on them.
When I bought the tractor the vendor came across afterwards and said it had come from a scrapyard in dagenham many years previous having been disposed of by Ford, it was meant to have been cut up but found its was out to a nearby farmer who then used it before parking it up for the last 25+yrs in a barn. At the time this seemed rather far fetched but since then investigating the tractor has lead me to believe that the chap was in fact telling the truth.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a prototype super major, if someone can remind me how to upload photos I will add some.

Fascinating!

From what you have discovered I do not doubt that what you have is a Ford experimental tractor. The original registration mark 883 EVX is earlier in the series than the number 121 LVX on the experimental Power Major in Stuart Gibbard's book, so this would fit in with your dates of 1958-59 on the castings. The other number 559 PHK is a Chelmsford Essex number, quite why it was registered again I can only assume is that the tractor might have evolved considerably from the time it was first registered.
It would be interesting if you got the registration details from Essex County archives for these registration numbers and compare the dates and the serial numbers that they were registered on. These experimental tractors evolved continuously, and so the first registration mark might have been when the tractor was regarded as a pure Power Major whereas by the time it acquired the later mark it might have had an engine change and Super Major hydraulics, brakes and tombstone fitted and been regarded as a different tractor! Whilst you are checking get the details for the 121 LVX tractor to shed some light on that.

Experimental tractors were always on test at Rainham and Mudlands Farm, and apparently up to 60 tractors could be on test at any one time.

By a later starter I assume you mean the solenoid engaged type. These were Lucas designed and fitted to 592E and 590E engines in some applications from the later 1950's, so that is not so much an experimental issue.

I can't help you with the picture uploading problem but keep us all up to date with your research, and congratulations on owning such an interesting tractor!

Maybe this will help.
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... f=2&t=5024
It will not work with windows 10 edge.
use explorer to get the url and place that between [img and /img] tags.

Maybe this will help.
http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... f=2&t=5024
It will not work with windows 10 edge.
use explorer to get the url and place that between [img and /img] tags.

Both EVX and PHK are Chelmsford registrations.
Essex council should be able to tell you who took out these registrations.

Just had the details back from the Essex archives, both registrations were new to ford motor company. The 599PHK reg gives a serial number starting 'S' that was registered to Ford at Dagenham in May 1959, the reg underneath 883EVX gives a serial number of 'X98' and was one of several registered that day, all were either 'X' numbers with the exception of a Ferguson that was also registered by Ford. These all date to December '55.
The other registration mentioned on this post, 121LVX (not on from my tractor but a works photo of a Fordson) shows date of first registration November '58, registered to Ford Motor Co. as serial # 1487988

So it does look like my tractor was a Ford prototype, not sure where the 883EVX reg fits in as this pre-dates everything on the tractor but the PHK is the right kind of time for most of the castings. Could be that it just kept being updated with bits along the way until they decided to re-register it or just that they riveted the old plate on behind to strengthen what is a fairly bashed about number plate.

Still havent worked out how to upload pictures though.

Hello

559 PHK registered in May 1959 - with an "S" prefix engine number denotes an industrial engine, so this would be your Power Major with draft control hydraulics and several other casting anomalies that you reported as Ford would not have wanted to use a serial number out of the tractor range as these were all punched in series on the tractor assembly line as they were completed. It would appear that your tractor has been built up from several prototype components and was not originally off the production line.


883 EVX December 1955 - you are probably right that this number is not relevant to this particular tractor. What is absolutely FASCINATING is that Ford registered a Ferguson to themselves on that day in the "EVX" series . I would guess that they had somebody buy this tractor new on their behalf so that Ferguson would not know where it was going to, and Ford would have been studying the latest Ferguson system hydraulics - or is that too "cloak and dagger"??!

The other registration 121 LVX being the Power Major with draft control hydraulics shown working in 1960 in Stuart Gibbard's book - a serial number of 1487988 denotes an October 1958 Power Major build straight off the production line so this tractor would have been a standard Power Major that was later modified and had less of the differences from the norm as your tractor has.

I have never come across the use of "X" serial numbers in Fordson tractors, again I would guess that "X" serial numbers were for prototype and development tractors.

It looks like there were several tractors registered all on 28th Dec 1955:
881 EVX Ferguson, SA90272E
882 EVX Ferguson, X1003
883 EVX Ford (note this was 'land tractor' all the others were 'agric. tractor'), X98
884 EVX Ford X107L
885 EVX Ford X106L

All registered to Ford Motor Co. Ltd, Head Administration Dept. (A. Bradley)

I dont know about any number prior to these on the same day as I didnt get a copy of that page from the archivist.

The later registrations were registered to Ford Motor Co. Ltd, Dagenham.

Fascinating, and fortunate that Essex CC haven't done what Norfolk did - dump their registration records

I don't think one maker openly buying from another was uncommon, of course, whether what they bought was to spec or correctly adjusted is another matter

Makers did buy their competitors tractors for evaluation, but I would doubt they could do it openly as they would most likely to be told where to put it!

Obviously the Ferguson tractors would be production line models with their correct serial numbers which all started "TEA" or "TED" or "TEF" or "TEK" etc. etc., so how Ford managed to register them on "X" numbers is a mystery, the "SA90272E" might have been an engine number, but obviously Ford were well in with the Essex County Vehicle Registration section - and presumably Ferguson was likewise with the Warwickshire County Vehicle Registration department!

Perhaps like PC vendors and window$ licenses, big organisations could buy or reserve a block of sequential and preferred registrations shepp ?

Fordson has detected that you do not have a valid license to operate Super Major V E1A, this will be uninstalled and replaced with Major V E27N

I'm sure I read somewhere fairly recently that tractor makers buying from other makers was fairly common - 'I'll have six Majors but want a TED20 for mucking out' sort of thing.

Mine has been blowing coolant out in increasing quantities over the weekend (I've been running spoiled hay down to the farm for the bullock yard) now added an extension drain pipe and a plastic can hung off the headlight to collect it - one more trailer load and then I can start on replacing the head gasket

Thought I would revive this thread in case someone has found more prototype Fordson's. I'm also puzzled by the design of the 5035 (sort of Major powered Ford 4P that appears in Start Gibbard's Ford Tractor Story). He mentions that 5 runners were made but the only pics are of the wooden mockup at Rainham Works. Several prototypes can be seen in the last film in ford and fordson on film 15 including the Major mockup shown in the book as well (that one has several real parts, including the front axle and rear wheels possibly part of the rear axle too but don't know) but I don't know if any of those are still around. One seems to have a CAV in line injector pump, so it seems Ford was experimenting with pumps too.

Roadless63 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:50 pm

It looks like there were several tractors registered all on 28th Dec 1955:
881 EVX Ferguson, SA90272E
882 EVX Ferguson, X1003
883 EVX Ford (note this was 'land tractor' all the others were 'agric. tractor'), X98
884 EVX Ford X107L
885 EVX Ford X106L

All registered to Ford Motor Co. Ltd, Head Administration Dept. (A. Bradley)

I dont know about any number prior to these on the same day as I didnt get a copy of that page from the archivist.

The later registrations were registered to Ford Motor Co. Ltd, Dagenham.

Always been puzzled by these tractors being registered that way. Ford definitely had an FE-35 and IH-B250 in late 57 as they're in the first film in ford and fordson on film 5. No doubt Brian would recognise many of the people in that film (including David Pearson, there's a superb article in a magazine about his work at that time, that magazine also has a Stuart Gibbard article on the NP tractors).
There's also the Super Major with the Ford 6000 Select-o-Speed gearbox, know little about its success.
Then there's something mentioned in both the Major and Dexta books from Allan T Condie, the "reduced Major". Having discovered the Dexta 44 I now feel we need to try Ford's old theory by making a 3 cylinder engine and trying it in a Dexta and a Major (and perhaps a 30 cwt Thames Trader too). I see few difficulties other than lack of space for a 3 cylinder version of the Dexta 44 but the sump on a reduced Major is much more awkward (if the A-frame is left unchanged). This would be to see what it could do next to normal Major's and Dexta's on both rear ends.
Then there are the radio controlled tractors. Not too sure how many were made or if they were seen much. In ford and fordson on film 3 the Radio Major is seen probably in September 55 but not sure. In ford and fordson on film 16 there's a radio controlled Dexta in the first film and the radio Major briefly in the third last film with the reg 866 DPU. Then there's this short film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJLwlUT ... hrisBiddle
Nice seeing Ebro tractors there too.
Talking of Ebro tractors I only know of two prototypes, one is a Major Diesel with a handbrake (probably the only one ever!) and then the prototype Ebro 160.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z2fjcr ... lAutomovil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFWiFDs ... lAutomovil
Any others anyone knows are definitely worth inspecting and getting lots of pics of too, but there are probably a massive number of these that we don't even know existed.
Slightly off topic there are some other special tractors, such as Major Diesel no. 100000 (June 55) or the 62 specials as seen in films and Stuart Gibbard's book. Also keen to see if any of those are still around.
Sandy

Hi, sorry I dont get on here very often these days but had a few spare moments this morning.
I haven't come across any more prototypes, it was more luck than judgement that I stumbled across the one mentioned at the start of this thread. I have looked for any historical pictures showing my tractor but haven't found any yet.
I did check the casting dates more closely, the back end casting date is December 1958 and one trumpet matches this. The gearbox is January 1960, engine is August 1960. It is not the original engine for sure. What is interesting is that the block is dated August 1960 but Ford have fitted a minimec pump to it, these didn't arrive in production until 2yrs later.
None of the super major specific castings have any markings whatsoever namely front cross member and hydraulic top cover. At some point I'll pull the top cover to see how the oil pipes were fed into the top cover as a power major back end casting wouldn't have the casting detail to support the 2 pipes from the hyd pump.
The two decals on the bonnet look to be US spec ford 5000 decals as used on later export super majors to the US.
It is definitely a rare bit of history, would be great to find someone who could remember it first hand or find a period photo of it.

That would be really great as I suspect some prototypes would have been put through really tough situations. I partly brought this up after seeing this:https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=66 ... 5692144280 Can't really comment on it as I can't see any details very well but it does seem to be a bit of a mix of parts. I don't see why it's not the original engine, at least as far as the casting codes go. It could have been a mix of parts from new. The fitting of the minimec is probably the thing I'm most interested in as Ford clearly state in the manuals that any block before 1613500 is not suitable, but they had to test it somewhere and it probably didn't justify a new casting for a few prototypes. Very odd for it to have the American appearance, maybe it tested that too! The feed pipe bracket would be a great one to see too, as there are many broken ones and it seems it would possibly offer a solution without welding or replacing the casting. I suspect the unmarked castings are a good sign of Ford's intention of not selling these tractors to farmers. Yet yours was very lucky, and it now allows us to see how Ford did tests that might not have been filmed or photographed. By the way what serial numbers are ther on the block and the log book? You said that the log book had an industrial number, just keen on seeing what date it is.
If you find time to post pics see this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5024&p=53955#p53955
Sandy

I can't seem to access the Facebook link you posted for some reason.
The original engine serial was s155459, it now has s204932 which would be around aug/sept 1960. It has a minimec pump, it doesn't have the casting down near the sump to accept the separate glass sediment bowl (the later style lift pump lost the glass bowl but a separate one was available) they made a bracket and positioned it in the place where it would eventually be positioned when the block casting was updated. I've not studied it well enough to see how they mounted the minimec pump.

That's odd, although I know nothing about Facebook, nor am I in it.
That does suggest an engine swap, it was probably built as a kit of parts at Rainham. The original engine might have been used to test an adapted GM governor or something like that (just a thought), they must have decided to swap it for as late an engine as possible to test the Super details with the other Super parts. The separate sediment bowl would have been easy to locate, the minimec is the difficult one. Might the pipes be a bit different to production ones? By the way, what code does the head have? If the head fits as April 59, S155459 might have suffered a major failure during testing (actually that might have happened anyway, but the head might or might not tell a separate story). Is the sump a Super one with the larger pin?
Sorry to load you with even more questions but so little is known about prototypes that your one is a bit of an attraction.
Sandy