The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Hi Gary

Is this the lift pump you are referring to or the injection pump? Complete new lift pumps are about £30, but I know Agriline are out of stock at the moment. Malpas online have stock at £36.27 plus carriage, also repair kits at £12.99 plus carriage, both in stock. Also look on eBay.

The injection pump, number 4 cylinder providing fuel and easy movement, numbers 2, 3, and four nil fuel and very little movement. This problem started last year due to the fact tractor had little use in the previous 2 - 3 years then counting caravan site closed last Sept not opened until a couple of weeks ago the time of non use is best part of 4 years. I think if I had been able to work on the m/c possible may have been able to rectify problem. Off tomorrow hoping that the specialist will only have to free off the cylinders, here's hoping. Many thanks for your help, I knew nothing about injector pump before, not saying I know a lot more. The next learning step will be the refitting of the offending object, have beeN told a little about resetting to correct parameters, wish me luck for that BIG DAY.

Well that's a shame after all the suggestions put forward! That pump must have really taken some weather, presumably the tractor was left outside without a sheet for the 4 years you mention? It must have taken water into the casing and probably water in the fuel has reached the pump as well. You will have to keep your fingers crossed but the pump plungers and barrels are such precision finished components. However I don't know about plungers and barrels for the SP4 pump but minimec plunger and barrel sets are as little as about £12 per set i.e. per individual cylinder, racks are reasonable as are springs. Best of luck, let us know how you go on.

Have taken the pump to a dealer in Swansea, they are going to examine and let me know if they can get any parts, they reckon that Simms are (OLD) a good pump but parts can be problematic.
As for sheeting ,it has been trussed up with my boat looking like Xmas presents. First time for cover off since Sept 2019 was 2 weeks ago, even then had a tarpaulin stretched over like a tent. Only time Tractor not sheeted would have been overnight ready for early start.
Did find that filters (lift pump) was very sticky, and lot of sludge in fuel tank, now emptied.
I have spoken to Bob Beck of leamington Spa who said the would recon pump, could be next step.

Both,
Are the pumps interchangeable?
Mine is a Simms SPE4A75S646 there is another available part No SPE4A70SR80 and another SPE4A75SS527. Both around £390.
Regards
Gary

Hi Gary

The SP4A75S pump is a later pump and has plungers and barrels that are 7.5mm in diameter, hence the "75".
The SP4A70S is the earlier pump and has plungers that are 7.00mm in diameter and thus need a longer stroke to inject the same amount of fuel as the SP4A75S which means a longer injection time.
The SP4A75S with it's shorter injection cycle enhanced the performance of the engine. This was introduced with the mark 2 engine serial numbers 1425097 to 1481090.

The earlier " 70" pump was fitted to mark 1 engines which are engines with serial numbers up to serial number 1425096 and which had cylinder heads with staggered exhaust ports. These pumps are timed at 29 degrees for mark 1 engines up to 1308977, and timed at 26 degrees for mark 1 engines from 1308978 to 1425096.

With the advent of the mark 2 engine with inline exhaust ports serial numbers 1425097 to 1481090 the "75" pump was fitted. These are timed at 23 degrees. It was also fitted to the mark 3 engines which are engines with serial numbers 1481091 onwards, for these engines the timing is also 23 degrees. All timings are B.T.D.C. , before top dead centre.

In an emergency the pumps with 7.00 mm diameter plungers may be fitted to mark 2 and mark 3 engines provided that the pump timing is set at 26 degrees. However pumps with 7.5mm plungers should NEVER be fitted to mark 1 engines, i.e.. engines before serial number 1425097.

To sum up if yours is a mark 1 engine with staggered exhaust ports and serial number up to 1425096 it should ONLY have the 7.00mm type pump fitted. For the mark 2 and mark 3 engines you can use either provided that the timing is 26 degrees for the 7.00mm pump , and 23 degrees for the 7.5mm pump.

Hope that helps, if yours us a mark 2 or mark 3 engine with a 7.5mm pump best stick to that! Either of the two "75" pumps you mention would be OK, the differences are minor internal improvements.
There are a number of used and reconditioned pumps on eBay, also Tractor & Machinery magazine always has recon pumps advertised in the classified section.

If you have the 75S 647 pump, you'll need to keep to it; it has a better damping valve with a smaller suction pipe. The delivery valves should be parallel, and not have any taper on the piston portion. These delivery valves were introduced with the Power Major using 75S 527 pumps, which don't have the new damping valve. That appeared with the Super Major. The new damping valve should provide better rev control. If you do want to change pumps you'll need to swap governors.
Don't get the 70S 380. This has a tapered portion on the piston part of the delivery valves and 7 mm plungers.
In between the 70S 380 and the 75S 527 is the 75S 498, with tapered portion delivery valves and 7,5 mm plungers. Avoid this one if possible too.
Sandy

If you have an engine with a SP4A75S647 pump (646 does not tally) you should have a mark 3 engine from a Super Major, unless someone had switched pumps on the engine in the past! The change on the damping valve , which is on the end of the diaphragm, to a 7 degree taper and the change in the governor suction pipe to a smaller 3/16 inch O/D pipe on the 647 pump was done to give better control of engine surging or "hunting". As far as I am aware the union on the smaller vacuum pipe is the same as on the earlier larger pipe used on 75 S pumps so if your engine has the smaller pipe the union should fit all governor housings on 75S pumps. The first 7.5mm pump was the SP4A75S498 which had a short damping valve piston with a 10 degree taper, the next one was the SP4A75S527 which had a longer piston and a 20 degree taper, and the final one was the SP4A75S647 which had the longer piston but with a 7 degree taper .

Fixings are interchangeable but a 7 degree damping valve must only be used with the small O/D suction pipe and the other two with the large O/D one.
The engine is a bitsa.
Sandy

Hello both,
Having thought to have the pump rectified local by a supposed electric/diesel specialist going by the name of shorts of Swansea, I was told this morning that they could not find the parts to rectify the problem with the pump and I should collect from them. Immeidiately drove 20 miles to the company only to be told that there was a problem with the pump (which I knew) could not get the parts and charged me £54.00 for work done. To say I was annoyed would be very mild, they had told me when I gave them the pump that they have had trouble obtaining parts, daylight robbery in my opinion.
Have now packed the pump for a courier pick up tomorrow by a firm from Liecester, will keep you informed of procedings. Have been assured by the company that there would not be a problem. Incidentally Shorts mentioned a cost far in excess of other quotes only for (unavailable) parts.
Trying to stay local has cost time - 4 days and a lighter pocket.
Gary

Hi Gary

I think the term is robbing b******s!

There are plenty of people who overhaul these pumps and who regularly advertise in Tractor & Machinery, Classic Tractor etc, such as SJ Wilkinson in my part if the world. They do not seem to have any issue with parts. Look at www.injectionpumps.co.uk, they have the full range for 7.5mm SPA 4 and 3 pumps including plunger and barrel elements, springs, cam followers, camshafts, bearings, seals and gaskets, diaphragms, racks, delivery valves etc etc. Parts are continuing to be made by companies such as Saco, and companies in the US also have virtually evey part. Hope your new people are better than the last!

Superb site, they've even got the proper fibre drive pad rather than the common plastic one.
Have a good look around!
Sandy

Hi,
Company I have sent the pump to is Welham Diesel Injection Co Ltd of Leicester, they assured me that they can/will sort out the pump. Hopefully it has by now been picked up by courier.
Cannot believe the local company supposed to be a diesel expert. Would not buy an AA battery off them in future.

Hi both,
Have just recieved info that the pump has been checked and found to have normal wear and tear, work will be completed and pump delivered early next week. Have been informed of cost and I am very pleased. Considering that he local company apart from charging for investigation were EXHORBITANT in their quotation.
Once I have recieved the pump I would like to mention them on this forum if that is allowed. Also make further comment on the LOCAL SWANSEA COMPANY.

Pump delivered today, cannot believe the condition, I would say as good as NEW. The work carried out by WELLHAM DIESEL. The service and help tremendous and cost I think very reasonable (shame about VAT) Now for setting timing, have not got a clue nor any sort of manual for a guide.

Look at this.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=825
You'll want to use 23ºBTDC. Remove the inspection cover on the bottom back right of the sump,

turn the engine until marks appear on the flywheel, make sure no 1 cylinder is in compression by seeing the clamp bolt is below the auxiliary shaft (as in the page I've linked) and align the marks on the pump before fitting. Loosen the claw bolts, turn the engine to 23ºBTDC and with the pump marks aligned fit the pump moving the drive pad not the pump. Tighten the claw bolts once the pump is attached and turn the engine twice till 23ºBTDC no 1 compression reappears, then check the pump, re time if necessary and re check it until it doesn't change.
Sandy

Thanks for the answer, hopefully not caused a problem. Fitted the pump to tractor but not attempted anything further. Pump was already aligned to timing Mark's by Wellham. Did not know where to find timing on tractor nor what /how to proceed. Does this mean have to remove pump from tractor?

If no 1 cylinder is in compression you can just time it, but if it's not you'll have to remove the pump and turn the engine once to 23ºBTDC, loosening the claw bolts and aligning the pump mark if it has moved before refitting it.
Sandy

Can anyone see the images???????

You may have to click on the link:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rghuvv2esya1 ... iXb8a?dl=0

Looking good.
The pics weren't visible here but fine with the link.
Sandy

Engine RUNNING!!!



Must be a different entity to normal fordson engines. Tried and Tried to follow instructions to no avail, could not match any calibrations on flywheel or pump flange. Spoke to a tractor garage and he gave similar to yourself, failed went back to him and he said there was a new type of part between pump and flange. Suggested that we try fitting as the pump supplied, calibration on the pump, no where near the pump setting.

Fitted pump and filled with oil, bled system, engine started and is running like a new ROLEX.
My son did the job not even a mechanic but a tremendous artist. The mind boggles.

Excuse the emojis, grand daughter sent the mail.

Great that you're running!
Bitsa engines do sometimes want different timing.
The coupling is not original but will work fine.
Sandy

Hi,
Taken as read that the engine has come from various tractors and bearing in mind that the pipe from tank is clear plastic I would wish to install all new metal, I believe copper pipe. I have found a problem in finding a supplier especially inline compression fitting and olives.
I did purchase a pipe from an advertised supplier which does not fit due to the unorthodox pipe work and differing positions of sight glass and lift pump. So know I need to fabricate a pipe to fit, hence need for inline connector and olives.
Hope you can help.
Tried the company that supplied the non fitting pipe, cannot supply even though I supplied a working drawing.
Here is hoping, have already purchased flexible pipe just in case.
Incidentally fitted a new set of injector pipes and replaced the abomination of a clutch adjustment lever. Next job wheels off and brakes sorted. Has had a minor paint job, starting to look "good".

Aftermarket fuel pipes are available, they might want re-bending though, as they might not be quite right.
Sandy