Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

This forum is for the Fordson New Major, including the Super Major and the Power Major.
watersteps
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Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

I found a number on the engine front right side, S428200, I have been told that this is a 1964 replacement engine. The injector is marked as being rebuilt.
I would like to know how I look for a service manual, I know that it has Power, Fordson, Major on the side of the engine hood.
Anyone have a diagram that shows where the numbers are located at.

watersteps
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

It also has Ford 5000 on the hood.

mathias1
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by mathias1 »

Hello and welcome.

I moved this topic to the right section.
The S in the serial number on the engine means it's an industrial engine. These where used as a replacement.
If it says Ford 5000 on the hood, I guess you are located in the Usa. Does it have a cream colored hood, tank and nose cone?
To be sure if it's based on a fordson power major, you will have to make some pictures (rear, left and right side). Try to find some casting codes as well of the gearbox and rear end.
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

watersteps
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

Yes I am in the US, the hood and nose are all blue but it could have been painted.
I will try to attach some pic's.

watersteps
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

No luck posting pic's

Old Hywel
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Old Hywel »

The serial number should be on an alloy plate on the engine side of the battery box/firewall. I believe that the original engine number also counted as the tractor serial number.
Mine has an ‘S’ numbered engine too, so that’s no help. Worse, it’s been in a fire and the plate has melted. It is however registered for the road, but the papers show a random letter included instead of one of the digits. Best left alone, the licensing authorities are NEVER wrong!

watersteps
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

I will look for that plate when I get back to the tractor's location.
Thanks for your help, I have made an offer of $1000.00, I will have to wait and see.

mathias1
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by mathias1 »

watersteps wrote:No luck posting pic's
You can find the how to here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5024

Some people on the board are using http://postimage.org with good results so far.

Here is how it works:
You can make an account on the website, so you can create your own album. This allows you to add or remove pictures when ever you need to. It is possible to use the website without an account, but you won't be able to alter your pictures.

1) chose size 800x600 (15inch monitor)
2) then chose the files you want to upload
3) Copy the code in the "Hotlink for forums" box
4) Paste the code in the message box together with your message.
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

watersteps
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

OK, I found the small aluminum tag on the front side of the divider between the battery and the engine. There is nothing on it, I even checked with a magnifying glass. It must have been a printed label. I also found a casting number on the right side of the block, looks like, EIADDN 6015 and on the cyl head, but it is up side down, DDN F2X. That is all I could find in the heavy rain shower.

watersteps
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by watersteps »

Thanks everyone for your help, I found too many things wrong with the tractor and I canceled my offer.

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Hello guys first time on here certainly not going to be the last.... Got a question regarding my supposed 58 power major. Basically I want to register for road use and only trans casting number relates age wise however from what I can tell engine is a 55 there's only a letter s under injector and a 6 digit number on the casting next to starter motor mount. So is that the engine number I would use to register??

mathias1
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by mathias1 »

Dan84 wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:20 pm
Hello guys first time on here certainly not going to be the last.... Got a question regarding my supposed 58 power major. Basically I want to register for road use and only trans casting number relates age wise however from what I can tell engine is a 55 there's only a letter s under injector and a 6 digit number on the casting next to starter motor mount. So is that the engine number I would use to register??
Hello Dan,

I'm not familiar with UK registrations, but the 6 digit number is your original number. The number on the engine is an industrial replacement engine.
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

oehrick
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by oehrick »

Hi Dan,
Unless you have the original registration Docs you may be in for a struggle to get your original or an age related reg back, the DVLA are what in other times and organisations was known as working to rule !
Grab a copy of Ford & Fordson Mag from which you can get in touch with Pat Pawsey who can advise what options are open to you and what information is needed.

Did mine just before they closed the local offices and Swansea still managed to screw things up - and it was already on their computer system !

Happy battling, you'll enjoy running her around when we are free again.
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Thankyou for the replys I suspected was an industrial unit. I suppose my other question is. She's far from completion yet so the thought of being able to be out for a run seems like a bit of a pipe dream🤔. If I can get it registered will it be registered as a power major? Or will it just be referred to on the log book as fordson tractor? I'm just interested if anyone knows. Cheers dan

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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Timeee »

Dear Dan84

According to the V5Cs (Log Book in old parlance) for my tractors, (both of which I had to obtain registration documents from DVLA), a number of the form's "boxes" have been left blank by DVLA. It would appear that in the event that you somehow manage to register it with DVLA, it will NOT be as a Power Major, but only as a Fordson Agricultural Tractor.

Details on my two V5Cs include the following information.

Date of First Registration; 130863. Date of First Registration in UK: 130863. These are different for my earlier Super Major which had been reimported from Holland. DVLA dates for this one were Date of First Registration: 221014, but they added (Declared Manufactured 1961)
Make: Fordson, Type:, Variant:, Version:, Model: etc are blank. The only other details are Body Type: Agric Tractor. Taxation Class: Either Historic Vehicle or Agricultural Machine. Fuel: Heavy Oil. Wheelplan: 2 Axle Rigid Body. VIN/Chassis No: O8C966xxx, or 1616xxx. Colour: Blue.

In retrospect, I was initially frustrated with DVLA, having to supply lots of detail (and photographs) on casting nos, engine serial no etc, yet these things were not recorded in detail on the V5C. I was lucky, in that when I registered the last tractor in 2014, the local DVLA office was still open and they were really helpful. I only had to go back once with additional information (60 mile round trip). I understand that now all DVLA Local offices are closed, one has to deal with DVLA Swansea and the experience is not altogether positive. Good luck. You may end up with a "Q" Plate. Do they still do them?

Timee

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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by shepp »

Hi Dan,

If you think the tractor is a Power Major, then it is a bit puzzling why you have a number sequence on the casting near to the starter motor mount, also you say this is a 6 digit number when all the earlier numbers without a prefix letter were 7 digit numbers.

First production Fordson Major was 1217101 and the serial numbers at this time were stamped on the casting behind the starter motor. This changed in March 1956 at serial number 1380939 onwards when the serial number was then stamped on the pad on the engine block. The last production Major was 1481090 and the first production Power Major was 1481091. The last production Power Major was 1578885 and the first production Super Major was 1578886.

If this model span does not fit in with your numbers, it is possible that when the industrial engine with the "S" prefix was fitted then whoever did this also stamped the casting behind the starter motor with the original serial number of the tractor so that it would not be lost - if so that was a remarkable piece of forethought as most people did not bother on an engine change!

After Fordson Super Major production ceased in July 1964 industrial 592E engines continued to be built at Dagenham until 1970-ish, this was possible because casting of the heads had been farmed out to a different foundry in April 1962 ("FL" stamped heads) and casting of the blocks had been farmed out to the Sterling Metals foundry in March 1964 to allow the Dagenham foundry to prepare for the production of the "D" series truck with it's new 220, 330 and 365 engines, and also to prepare for the production of the new 6X tractors at the new Basildon factory. The old 592E engine production at Dagenham was therefore simply a matter of assembling components produced elsewhere. From 1970 to 1974 Ford used Ebro produced engines branded as their own industrial engine for replacement tractor and industrial applications, this gave the necessary 10 year supply of components after a product ceased production that was common in the vehicle and tractor manufacturing industry at that time. Industrial engines WERE supplied as new replacement engines for tractors, but many tractors had used industrial engines from old compressors and generators etc. cobbled in to them as well, so it could be either case for your tractor.

Hope this information is useful and you can identify the type and age of your tractor to help with registration.
Last edited by shepp on Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Wow amazing response guys thankyou. I'm truly thankful for you sharing your knowledge and has been a big help. Yes for someone to fit a new engine and save/record the original number would be amazing maybe I'm lucky fingers crossed 🤞 once again thankyou. If I can work out how to post a pic of the number for you all to see and maybe confirm these thoughts I will. Hope you all having a good pandemic regards dan.

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Good evening guys I'm having problems accessing the selen website serial number check. Anyone else struggling? Getting back to my recent post I'm sure I'm going to draw a blank on this because of this replacement suspected industrial 55 engine in my 58 power major I've got a full 7digit number just wanted to fire it in see what happens. Anyone got a link which works or know of another search engine. My tractor had a number plate on the back I have no log book or proof of it being road registered. Just trying to see if the plate even exists but I'm certain the guy just put it on for giggles.???

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Just to add my engine number starts 136 by the cast markings on block behind generator is 55 but number is stamped behind starter motor mabey not from factory??

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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by shepp »

Hi Dan

What is the number stamped behind the starter motor?

What is the number stamped on the engine block above the injection pump?

If you go to the Kithead Trust website it has a section headed "Trace a Registration Mark". Enter the last two letters of the mark (e.g. if it is ABC 123 enter BC), and it will tell you which county or local authority issued the mark and where the records of that mark are held if they have been fortunate to be preserved in archives of the county or local authority concerned, or indeed are held by the Kithead Trust itself.
If the records exist you can apply for a certified copy of the record, usually for a small charge, and if the archive record contains the serial number of the vehicle connected with that registration mark and this coincides with the number stamped on the vehicle then you can use this information to re-claim the original registration mark and original date of registration of your tractor. As has previously been said, you will need to contact Pat Pawsey and he will guide you through the process and provide the forms and the necessary certification of various details that will be required by the DVLA at Swansea.

If the registration mark is not traceable in any archives then you will have to apply for an age related registration number IF the number stamped on your tractor behind the starter is a valid serial number for the Fordson Major range, but as I previously said the numbers were only stamped behind the starter motor up to March 1956 meaning that if your tractor number is a correct number sequence for the Major up to March 1956 and has a bonnet with Power Major badges on it then it is most likely a mix of parts from different tractors.
Does it have a Power Major fuel tank with the tacho and engine temperature gauges in the pod under the steering wheel? If the numbers stamped on the tractor have no validity or meaning then you will end up with a "Q" plate.

If you supply the number stamped behind the starter it will progress matters a lot further, also the registration number on the tractor.
Last edited by shepp on Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Hi there shep. Thanks for getting back. Im pretty certain it's not what they call a bitzer. Rear axle and gearbox dates 58. It's a power major in every way apart from what appears to have an early replacement engine. Number stamped in casting behind starter is 1360961 the only thing stamped on the block under injector is the letter prefix 's' it had this reg plate on 935 bbe

shepp
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by shepp »

Hi Dan

A serial number of 1360961 on the starter mounting flange is a proper Major serial number and definitely dates it to October 1955, as I said up to serial number 1380938 in March 1956 the serial numbers were stamped on the starter mount flange and for serial numbers 1380939 onwards they were stamped on the pad on the engine block. This signifies that it is a Major and not a Power Major.

The registration number 935 BBE was issued in the Lindsey area of Lincolnshire, which is a big farming area so the number could be correct. The archives have survived and the register and card index for this registration number are held at the Lincolnshire Archive Office, St Rumbold Street, Lincoln, tel 01522 526204, they will have a website if you google them, so you will be able to get details of the vehicle that this number was issued to including make and model and hopefully serial number. If it ties in with being a Fordson Major tractor with serial number 1360961 you are up and running with regard to re-claiming the original number. However it would confirm your tractor is not a Power Major.

Casting codes for Majors Power Majors and Super Majors are made up of 3 components - a letter followed by a number followed by a letter. The FIRST letter denotes the MONTH of casting, the number denotes the day of the month of casting, and the FINAL letter denotes the YEAR of casting. Casting years are: 1951 "S", 1952 "T", 1953 "U", 1954 "V", 1955 "X", 1956 Z", 1957 "A", 1958 "B", 1959 "C", 1960 "D", 1961 "F", 1962 "H", 1963 "J" up to around June when the New Performance Super Major was launched. The casting codes then changed for the New Performance tractor to a number followed by a letter followed by a number combination. The order was changed so that the FIRST number is the year of casting, 1963 (June onwards) was "3", 1964 was "4", then the LETTER is now the Month of casting, and the final number is the day of the month of casting.

So if your tractor WAS a Power Major it would have to have the year (the last letter) casting letters of either "B" for 1958, or "C" for 1959, or "D" for 1960. If it has a year casting letter of "X" on the gearbox case near the oil filler plug and/or on the rear axle or lift cover then it ties in with the serial number making it definitely 1955 and not a Power Major.

Get onto Lincolnshire Archives and see what you find out! Good luck.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Well this place is a wonderful bank of knowledge. Thankyou shep. I knew engine was a 55 making it just a major with cast number m5x 5th Oct 1955 now my gearbox cast number is l29b which I made to be 29th September 1958 and I can't remember my rear end cast number but I ran that through selen and was 1958 also so still pretty confident it being a fpm with all its got with top tank dials with throttle and dual clutch live drive but obviously got a fmd engine. Once again thankyou so much Il give a call. This is getting extremely exciting and interesting 👍😁🤔

shepp
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by shepp »

Hi Dan

Yes, it is getting interesting! It is beginning to look like the number stamped on the starter mount flange could have been done by someone other than Ford when the tractor was a few years old, but the question is why?

Ford used number and letter punches that had characters that looked like italic letters and numbers that were slanted. Does the serial number look like that or are the characters normal upright ones?

It will be very interesting to see what information Lincolnshire archives come up with!
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Dan84
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Re: Where is the frame and tractor serial numbers.

Post by Dan84 »

Yes they look slightly italic and slanted.

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