‘55 Major, injection system issues?

This forum is for the Fordson New Major, including the Super Major and the Power Major.
case680rob
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‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

Hi folks, I have a puzzle for you.

My engine smokes. A lot. No, not as much as when the governor diaphragm fails, I have had that happen. My assumption is that I have dirty injectors and I intend to clean them using a direct fuel system treatment.

The one I have used in other diesel injection systems before is LiquiMoly’s Diesel Purge. I have put it through two other engines now and had fantastic results, one in particular going from ugly tire-fire smoke to clean as a propane lantern as a result of the treatment.

To use this fuel system treatment I remove both draw and return fuel lines at the fuel tank and dip them both in the bottle, the engine runs entirely on the treatment, forcing a high-pressure concentrated solvent like action to take place in every part of the fuel system as the engine is running.

Now to the puzzle...
I have removed both draw and return lines, only to find out that return has nothing coming back toward the tank. The handful of Diesel engines I have dealt with have all had at least some flow if not a steady stream of fuel, presumably to cool and lubricate the pump. Do these tractors not have significant return flow?

What’s more, I believe my lift pump is weak. It seems that when I crack the bleeder on top of the filter and run the priming lever I don’t get much. Maybe this leads to not enough for a return flow? Or maybe my filter is plugged? I’ll change that for sure.

Anyone have any knowledge on these fuel systems?

Thanks,
Rob Smith

Billy26F5
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

Check the flow straight out of the pump, in any case one cause for smoke is lack of hard work, so try to do some ploughing to help. If there's no leak off it suggests a leak in the engine, look in under the rocker cover and smell the oil, no diesel should be there.
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shepp
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by shepp »

The fuel injection system on these engines with an inline injection pump does not have a return flow from the injection pump back to the tank, unlike engines with a rotary pump. Basically the lift pump delivers fuel under pressure to a "dead end". The leak off pipe on the rear of the cylinder head to the fuel tank only takes the small amount of fuel that leaks off from the injectors, and as such that should BE a small amount, so no problem there. You should just feed your cleaner into the injection pump intake - although personally I doubt that these products do much good!

If you have smoke, have you checked the injection pump timing? If that appears to be spot on, another thing that happens as the hours creep up and the pump wears is that the injection pump phasing and calibration changes (and it can change differently for each cylinder), and this means that the injection point moves out of step with the scribe line on the injection pump plate. When these engines were in full time use it was usual to take the pump off and have it recalibrated and phased every 5000 hours or so. The phasing will be re_-set to the scribe line. If the pump timing checks out then this factor is something to consider. Another possibility is that one or more injectors are not spraying correctly and the injectors need servicing. Yet another possibility is that if the tractor has it's original mark 1 engine, if the head has never been off it will just have "o" ring type seals on the inlet valves, which will be hard and well past it by now and may be letting oil down into the intake ports which will be drawn into the engine and burned creating smoke. It will need new umbrella type seals fitting to all inlet and exhaust valves.

If the flow from the lift pump is slow, there is a mesh filter on the end of the fuel tap within the fuel tank which should be checked. In the lift pump itself there is a mesh filter in the bottom of the pump which is accessed by removing the sight glass and sealing rubber, check and clean that. Finally, yes, change the fuel filter element!
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me.

Sandy, this machine does get to run hard during the summer mowing with a 7’ hammer flail that demands more power than the FMD was built for. In the winter it grades the road, some mild load but mostly just off idle.

Shepp, your explanation of the injection system function makes sense. And while the hours are certainly unknown there is no reason to think that the valves don’t leak down a bit. As for the timing being off by mechanical wear that’s a real possibility as well. How would I verify this?

Symptoms to consider...
It ALWAYS smokes. Gray at an idle with occasional blue puffs, black under heavy load. Even at deceleration there is a hint of gray. And at it’s age I expect some. It runs well enough for my uses, but I can tell it’s missing now and then as if an injector is not firing entirely.

I’ll get a fuel filter coming, change engine and injector pump oil, and pull the rocker cover to get a look at the valve seals but it might be a few weeks before I get to that work as we have snow on the way and I might need to plow the road.

Billy26F5
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

If there's a hint of blue it suggests oil burning. Black suggests a fuel problem, so when you have the rocker cover off service the injectors, as a stuck needle valve will prevent the engine running properly. Hopefully after this you'll have a far better runner.
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by fenhayman »

Are you sure that you have a clean uninterrupted air flow to the manifold.

shepp
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by shepp »

Yes, the air flow is one I forgot to mention, it has reared it's head in the past with a contributor who had a tractor where the pipe from the air cleaner to the inlet manifold was laminating and the inner layer was collapsing when the engine was running and restricting the airflow.

Take the large rubber pipe from the air cleaner to the inlet manifold off and see how the tractor runs then - it might run a bit faster with it off so watch out for that. If it improves considerably then that indicates the airflow to the engine is restricted. Give the air cleaner a thorough cleaning out from top to bottom, including the wire meshing.
Inspect the rubber pipe internally, if it is laminating and collapsing internally under vacuum this is difficult to visually see. Having cleaned the air cleaner out and re-fitted the rubber pipe, if the engine runs rough again then the pipe is faulty and needs replacing.

Clean the mesh filters in the fuel system, fit a new paper element fuel filter, check the injection timing. If still running rough remove the large rubber pipe at the inlet manifold and see how it is then - if no different you need to look deeper. First stop I would say is remove the injectors and have them reconditioned at a specialist fuel injection service station. If that does not improve matters have the pump re-calibrated and the phasing re-set. If the engine is taking oil down the valve stems and burning it you will notice an increase in oil consumption. It is a matter of working through step by step but fuel filters, injection timing and restricted airflow to the engine are the obvious starting points.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

I can rule out oil consumption and airflow, I’ll get to filters and injectors soon enough.

Emiel
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Emiel »

Hi,

Several small issues can lead to these symptoms.

No oil in coolant? No water in oil? No diesel in oil?

Then injectors would be my main suspects. But you’re on that track. Keep us posted.

Rgds emiel.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

I suppose, if I had excess fuel going by the rings or leaking off in the head and some oil consumption from leaky valve seals I’d see the end result of smoke but no measurable oil consumption. When I get past the snow that’s coming I’ll put some time into finding the problem.

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

New information.

I had some time open up this afternoon so I continued with my previous work on the injection system.

After I finished running the cleaner through and putting the fuel line back on the tank I went out for a little road work. Air cleaner rubber elbow removed and fluids checked, still fills the neighborhood with smoke. Runs fair, no better or worse than before. Occasional partial miss at idle and much better under load.

After returning I decided to crack the injector lines at the head. 1,3, and 4 have only some effect on engine tone when cracked. #2 had a great affect, very much like yanking a spark plug boot from a gasoline engine.

My thought with this is that #2 injector is in ok shape while the other three are horribly plugged.

As of yet there has been no visible evidence of fluids mixing anywhere, the engine oil doesn’t smell like diesel and the exhaust doesn’t smell like engine oil.

I won’t be taking injectors out for cleaning for a while, unless cleaning them is something I can do in a few hours for myself without taking them to an injection shop.

Billy26F5
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

It's easy enough to do if you ensure you don't touch the bits that are lapped in (needle valve in particular) and you are able to find a place to set the pressure to 185 atmospheres (Be very careful not to touch any of the atomised spray, as it's extremely dangerous).
If your occasionally missing firings it suggests the needle valves are sticking a bit, if your engine is original and you want to renew the injector nozzles you will need Simms part no. NL123, with 0.25 diameter holes, doing that is probably best. Always service all four injectors at once.
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shepp
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by shepp »

Sounds like you have found the potential source of the problem. I would not advise trying to renovate the injectors yourself unless you are familiar with the process and have the relevant tools and pressure setting equipment. The injector needle valves will likely need lapping in to their seats which is a skilled job (unless you simply replace the nozzles completely), if the original nozzles will re-condition that is a better option as they are likely to be of a better quality than any replacements. Take them to a specialist fuel injection service centre who are experienced in the old mechanical nozzles.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

There’s a reputable diesel injection shop about an hour from me that I’ll use. They have patience for customers and do quality work. I’ll probably get it done in a few months, needs to happen before summer mowing season. I’m curious to see what kind of power difference it makes.

Billy26F5
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

You should notice an improvement, it should also give better fuel consumption as its much easier to run with all cylinders giving their correct power than having some not quite firing properly and even missing out altogether.
Sandy
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case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

I sent out for a quote on injector repairs today.

To add to the list, this tractor has at times in the past used just a little water, and I suspect a weak head gasket. When I pull the injectors I’m considering taking it down far enough to replace the head gasket. The kit appears to come with new valve stem seals so this gives reason to do the work with the head off even if I didn’t suspect head gasket troubles.

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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Emiel »

Hi,

Water use in a major is quite often evaporation through the filler neck. The cap doesn’t seal that well. Other cause often is leakage around the liner bottom. When worked hard you won’t find water in the oil.

In my experience they’re quite strong on the head gasket. If your compression is good, I wouldn’t take the head off before a pressure test on the cooling system.

Rgds emiel.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

I once ran hard with the hood off so I could see the radiator cap, every now and then it would spit at the cap a little as if it lost combustion gasses at max torque load. I have a busted overflow hose stem which allowed the spray to hit the fan airflow and spread everywhere, otherwise I would never have seen it. I really should get a hydrocarbon test kit and find out for sure, but sounds pretty conclusive.

Edit:
How much pressure is the system meant to hold? American cars are generally 13 PSI.

Billy26F5
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

Pressure caps can be 4 and 7 lbf, but I'm not sure how much that is in PSI.
If you loose coolant with a pressure cap on look for it in the oil, but you should be fine if there's no leak, if it goes out the overflow it's perfectly tolerable provided you don't loose too much (if it's too full you'll loose some briefly but it should settle down). If you don't have a pressure cap you're far more likely to have more substantial losses as there won't be anything to stop it coming out.
I wouldn't remove the head unless you have strong evidence of something wrong, but if you do make sure the injectors are not in it while it's off as the nozzles stick out and will be wrecked if they're left in.
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case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

LBF appears to translate as PSF, pounds per square foot. But that doesn’t make sense. 14.7 PSI is equal to 1 BAR, maybe I can find some more info on the internet...

case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

Never mind, found it. Appears to be the same. I found a radiator cap on eBay specifically for the Fordson majors rated at 7 PSI. Can the systems be pressurized further? Is 13 PSI safe?

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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

lbf is pound force, divide by the cap surface area to get pressure in PSI.
I don't think 13 PSI will be alright. If you can just do the test with no gauge and check for leaks first you should get an idea of what's wrong.
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case680rob
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by case680rob »

Finally got around to tinkering with the injection system. While poking around one day it crossed my mind that improper injector timing can produce poor running and smoky conditions like I had been experiencing. Sure enough, the drive coupler parts were completely shot. Ordered parts, installed yesterday and now the engine starts and runs very nicely.

Old Hywel
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Old Hywel »

Glad you found the fault.
Could you give us an idea of what was worn?

Billy26F5
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Re: ‘55 Major, injection system issues?

Post by Billy26F5 »

I would imagine it was the drive pad in the injector pump coupling.
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