Billy's LH mudguard - Repairing corroded tinwork

[Billy26F5]

Billy's LH mudguard suffered corrosion damage due to lack of cleaning and being in the damp, the box sections finally giving way in 2006 (I think). Since then it's been loose bouncing around after every bump, but this weekend we finally got round to doing it. The first job was to tack the rear box back on, a jig was made up to hold the mudguard in exactly the right place by clamping two bits of wood using the other mudguard as a guide and using a stick on the other side as a wedge (note only machined parts are being used for the jig to settle on).








Once that was done the mudguard needed to come off. The wee bolts came off easily enough, but the main bolts were pretty stiff (it took about three hours to loosen the nuts and another two to get them out altogether). The side light wire was burried in hardened dust, which needed to be ploughed out of the way in order to get it out. The connector screw came out very easily surprisingly.





Here's a shot from 1998, to show that it was already needing attention, but it still felt solid then (and partly supported the axle casting when it was removed in the rear end overhaul then)

And some from the next morning after removing the mudguard, showing the extent of the damage.







With the bolts now out cleaning can begin. The bolts will be refitted and tightened to ensure no damage to the check chain bracket if we need to do something in a hurry (hoping that's not the case though, as it's a bit exposed!)





Now proper welding can begin, note this is only my second ever welding session!








That's that for now. More to come soon.
Sandy

[Billy26F5]

More welding done. Our poor welding skills have meant we took much longer than most to get this done (and it's not finished yet).





A big hole that will need patching up after creating it by mistake.

While this was being done, the axle casting was cleaned. (note the carbon deposit from having exhaust gases there)






And so were the bolts.



Now with the wire conduit back where it's meant to be.

The footplate bolts were also cleaned and put back on to stop us loosing them.


The front box corrosion had to be chiselled out with an old screwdriver. This meant lifting bits out of the way to get better access.




The angle grinder is only acting as a counterbalance weight here.

While it was off the side light was to be opened up and cleaned. The front lens had lost its clips and was loose, so some clips were home made from rather heftier wire to secure it to the rim. Both rim retaining screws sheared, but the rims are so tight that it's unlikely that they will come off while we try to extract and replace the screws. Note these are Ebro side/rear lights.




The other side light was to be dismantled too, but not removed. Both of it's lenses needed replacement clips and the front screw sheared too, again the rim is a very tight fit.


Here with other bits awaiting refitting sometime.

More to come later.
Sandy

[henk]

Lots of careful welding to do. Should be a lot easyer to use MAG welding. But then you need other equipment.

[Billy26F5]

Unfortunately we only have an old std arc welder, we're using it on low power thinking that will stop it becoming a crude plasma cutter, but we may be quite wrong, although in most cases we've managed to avoid damage so far. The front box will be more delicate, as it's quite thin in places.
Another report coming soon.
Sandy

[Old Hywel]

I notice grease nipples ‘fore and aft’ on the axle. Is this usual?

[Billy26F5]

It is normal with the castings from this era (1955). They changed later to have only one at the back (I don't know exactly when, but I think all Super Major's have the later casting). If anyone has some confirmed dates of the change we can then see when the change occurred (casing codes on some of the earlier axle castings are a bit difficult to read).
Sandy

[Billy26F5]

After cleaning out the worst bits, everything was returned to its proper position.






Then plenty of welding and cleaning.






















More to come soon.
Sandy

[mathias1]

I know they sell new fender supports to weld on.
I think your welding will need some practice, not that I am that good at it. Is your current adjusted to the stick you use?

[Billy26F5]

We're so inexperienced that we don't even know that! We're trying to keep as much original material as possible, which makes this more difficult. Our welding will need lots of practise, for now it still feels like something odd to be doing, as we haven't really done very much at all.
Sandy

[Old52]

Hi Sandy:

If you look on the web you will be able to find a chart that shows approx amperage range for the thickness of the metal and the type of stick you are using (i.e. 6013 or 7018) stick wellding thin sheet metal is tricky at the best of times, but a small rod and lower amps should do it. Good luck.

Bob

[Billy26F5]

Thanks very much Bob. We're using 1/8" rods (all we've got), our welder doesn't actually say any current, there are ten connectors numbered 1-10, part of our problem is that the welder is from a friend and we don't have any instruction books or similar on it which means we're a bit more lost than we might have been.
Sandy

[Old52]

Do you know what type of rod you are using? 1/8th rod is big for that thickness. Also, if the rod is old and not dry, that will make it much harder. Try practicing on some thicker material and play with the welder settings...

Good luck.

[John b]

Hi Sandy, trying to keep as much original material as possible may cause you more grief than you need. Stick welding thin steel is hard enough but any trace of rust or paint near your weld will make it almost impossible.i taught myself to weld so i learned the hard way, i wish youtube had been around 35 years ago, the tutorials on there make things so much easier! If your welding rods haven't been stored in a dry, airtight container pop them in the oven for an hour, they'll work alot better. If you have holes in the thin mudguard tin you will have to cut out all the rust and weld a patch over them, you could try welding a piece of metal into hole you have cut out but its not easy with a stick welder (i'm talking as an amateur welder here, i'm sure there are plenty of pros who could do it). I take my hat off to you for having a go but be careful, its so easy to get into a real mess, when i was 17 i decided to weld up a small hole in my viva wing, the hole got bigger and bigger and i ended up having to fit a new wing!
John

[Billy26F5]

Thankfully the hole hasn't grown more than about 1/16" outward. It feels quite solid enough (it's just a mudguard, not an important bit for strength), so we'll see how it goes. We're doing this on the lowest current setting on the welder (the setting marked 1, I think our electrics would cut out at max current) thinking it would avoid any unwanted melting. At the moment our main problem is that the metal forms blobs in a sea of slag, but I'm not sure what that means. If this doesn't work we'll fit new material, but at the moment I remain hopeful that it might just hold on and allow us to finish it sooner, as we'll need to do some ploughing very soon. Tomorrow we'll see if after grinding it survives. We're hoping to get a better idea of welder settings on our J Bargans trailer, that needs fixing too.
Sandy

[John b]

Stick at it and you'll get there, welding is one of those jobs where you can be shown how to do it but the only way to get it right is practice and get the 'feel' of it and get used to the welder. Good luck
John

[John b]

Heres a tip i was shown by a bodywork repairer, make yourself some copper 'spoons', if you re trying to fill a small hole with weld, hold the 'spoon' flat against the back of the hole while you weld, it will stop the molten metal running straight through and it won't stick to the coppper
John
https://app.photobucket.com/u/Dixienormous68

[Billy26F5]

Thanks very much John. Unfortunately we're a bit short on copper, but we'll try and see if we can make them and try them.
Sandy

[John b]

If you have any offcuts of copper pipe anywhere i've used them before now, just hammer one end to the shape you need and bend the rest to form a handle
John

[Billy26F5]

More patching up. Our main problem is getting the weld in the right place, it looks fine until the slag comes off to show that a hole you had was completely missed. We're not going to get the tiniest holes as the paint will cover them anyway (we'll only paint what needs paint, as there's plenty of original still there).










Unfortunately we're still on older pipes (our only copper ones are the fuel lines) so getting copper will be difficult. We've been careful to avoid drips coming down (although a few did reach the table!) when covering holes in thin plate, and covered the holes in steps, then grinding before patching up small holes in weld.
More coming soon.
Sandy

[John b]

Hi Sandy, did Ford supply the tinwork to Ebro, or did Ebro use the original Ford jigs?
John

[Billy26F5]

Billy is a Major (with a much later Ebro engine). Until the Power Major, Ebro simply re-badged Majors, after that they used their own tools (for everything); later Ford sold them theirs (1965). Billy has picked up other Ebro bits, like the side lights.
Sandy

[John b]

Ahh now it makes more sense, wasn't too sure of the Ebro history
Cheers
John

[Billy26F5]

More patching up. The holes are gradually getting smaller and more isolated.


The welder at work!



The other side has barely changed since the last set of pics of it.






Less holes here.


Our grinding disc is now finished (need a replacement soon to keep up), and it got a bit wet here (hence the mudguard is inside), so for the first time for ages there's non processed weld on overnight.

More soon.
Sandy

[Billy26F5]

Did a bit more today, with the new grinding disc, it's much better than the other one was (and noisier too!).




Only a few holes there before moving on to the other side!
Sandy

[Billy26F5]

After a bit of a break thinning vines welding continues. We probably won't do more ploughing for now as it's far too dry; we still need Billy available though as or next urgency could well be water for the garden.
The holes here are now very wee


And that's that there for now. If we get much better at welding we might try and cover the rest.


Now on to the other side.





The bit that retains its original paint fell off when ploughing earlier in the year and was brought back on the front casting just in the "bowl" beneath the radiator; and apart from a bit of rust looked good. We decided to use a wire brush in our drill recently, and we cleaned it up to reveal plenty of clean material (not visible in the pics), leaving it looking like the area below it. We'll be fitting a bit of extra plate beneath this, we still need to cut it, but it will make finishing easier maybe.

At the same time, holes are being patched up on this side. Hope this will be finished soon!








More coming very soon.
Sandy