59 Power Major revival

This forum is for the Fordson New Major, including the Super Major and the Power Major.
relick
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Location: Kuranda, Northern Queensland, Australia.

59 Power Major revival

Post by relick »

Hello brains trust!!
I parked the Major in the shed about 5 years ago with the 2 stage clutch not working. The problem now is with the Injector pump (not surprising I guess). I've gone thru the fuel system from the tank thru to the injector pump, replaced filters, blown out lines, stripped fuel pump, primes up fine but nothing at the injectors, its not the lines there is just no output from the injector pump.
Any ideas before I take the pump off and give it to the professionals and watch the bank balance drop......
Any thoughts appreciated........
Relick

1958 Fordson Power Major

Old Hywel
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Old Hywel »

Taking the side panel off the pump will allow you to check that the rack is free to travel fore and aft. Could well be stuck.

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

Before you remove the inspection cover ensure no dirt can get anywhere near the pump as otherwise you will be needing a pump overhaul. Ensure the rack and plungers are free by operating the stop control and turning the engine at least two full turns. Once that's fine try a start and see if you can see leaking from the plungers, if there is the plungers and barrels need replacing, if all is fine refit the cover ensuring no dirt gets in. If you still get nothing it could be stuck delivery valves, again ensure no dirt is around and check them one at a time to avoid mixing them. Torque the delivery valve holder to 30 lb ft, if you still get nothing the pump needs other attention that will be easier with diesel shop tools.

On a note to an old post of yours, if the starter doesn't engage before it turns try moving the switch forwards, if that doesn't work remove the starter and inspect the pinion. Billy's one did this and looked like this and was replaced
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once you've done that ensure the switch is as far forward as possible and try it, if it still does it the ring gear on the flywheel needs replacing, although you might manage to improve the engagement by removing the screws on the ring gear one by one through the starter aperture and turning it a sixth of a turn, torque those to 15 lb ft and do it evenly to avoid damage.
Sandy
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relick
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by relick »

Old Hywel wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:01 am
Taking the side panel off the pump will allow you to check that the rack is free to travel fore and aft. Could well be stuck.
Yep, the rack is not moving and neither are the plungers, the rack seems to be as far towards the rear of the machine as it it meant to go, so that seems to be in the run position. When you try to activate the fuel cut off the rack moves a fraction but stops solid. I've giving it all a regular spray with penetrant, was going to check the prefilter and delivery valves next. It was last run on Bio Diesel years ago, that may be adding to my problems..........
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm lost without the help :roll:
Relick

1958 Fordson Power Major

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

That sounds like you've got one of the early pumps if it has a prefilter. Don't look at the delivery valves until the rack and plungers move fine. Be very careful freeing it up.
Sandy
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relick
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by relick »

I don't know for sure that it does, im looking at an older diagram and I'm thinking if it does its fine as I'm getting fuel into the injector pump from the lift pump no problems.
I'm not too sure where to apply the force to get the plungers moving.............
Relick

1958 Fordson Power Major

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

ensure the tappet for that plunger is in its lowest position and try a screwdriver between the plunger and barrel making sure you don't touch the lapped face once the plunger has come down. Once all four are free the rack should be too.
Sandy
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Emiel
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Emiel »

Hi,

Biodiesel gums up when it ages. You might find your plungers are glued with gummed up biodiesel.

Tricky to solve without damaging your pump. Taking pump apart might be an idea, but only with the right equipment in a room clean enough to do so. So for most people, including me a no go.

May be warming with a hot air gun can help a little.

Rgds emiel.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

I wouldn't warm the pump as it could cause more trouble than good. Flush the fuel gallery pumping clean fuel with the lift pump out through the bleed screw and then try to move the plungers one by one. If you can keep the pump clean, by all means remove the fuel gallery and move the plungers like that, but if you want to do that you must be sure no dirt gets in and you don't mix up the plungers. If you do remove the fuel gallery, the rack should move easily.
Sandy
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Emiel
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Emiel »

Hi Sandy, Relick,

Didn't mean to make it melt down like in a blast furness. :D When you heat it to around 70-80 degrees around the plungers it becomes a lot easier to flush out gummed up diesel then it is at ambient temperature.

That temp it can perfectly withstand without damage. Imagine how hot it gets around a combine engine when working under high load in the sun on a hot august day.

If it is gummed up diesel you should not try to push it through the injectors, but disconnect the injection tubes from the pump, but as you want to take the delivery valves out you'll have them off anyway.

rgds Emiel
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

My point about the heat is the origin, as the working heat comes from the high pressure fuel and friction, which works in quite a different way to the heat from outside which is minimal in normal working.
Don't remove the delivery valves unless you need to, and keep the injectors disconnected until the pump is working. If it still doesn't run you'll need to free the injector needle valves too.
Sandy
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shepp
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by shepp »

When the engine stops the governor spring moves the rack as far to the left as possible, except for the excess fuel position, so that on next start up a full charge of fuel is initially injected. That is why these engines start so well. So it is correct to find the rack in the far left position. However, it should not be stuck. The ends of the rack run in the aluminium cases of the governor assembly at the right end and the stop assembly at the left end. Early racks had square ends where they ran in the case bores and these could stick in their bores, later racks had round ends and were less prone to sticking. If the engine has stood a long time and there is condensation in the camshaft chamber there could be corrosion between the steel rack ends and it's aluminium bores.

You could take off the governor housing at the right end and the stop housing at the left end and clean up the ends of the rack with fine emery cloth. This limited dismantling would allow you to get more penetrating oil into the bores as well. Also clean up the rack ends that are able to be seen in the camshaft chamber. See if this allows you to free the rack off. Tractors that have been unused for years often end up with racks stuck.

So even with the rack stuck it will be stuck in maximum fuel position and the pump should still deliver fuel to the injectors. If the pump plungers are stuck it will be in the compressed position and you should be able to see that is the case with the side cover removed, the springs will be compressed and all to the same degree. Clean off the pump exterior thoroughly, remove the injector pipes and remove the delivery valves from the top of the pump. You can blow out any liquid from the top of the pump barrels with compressed air and introduce penetrating oil into the bores from above. If you have been using biodiesel ( or is it chip pan oil??!!) then you may need to use a solvent such as a proprietary carburettor cleaner or even cellulose thinners to dissolve the gunge in the barrels and plungers. Let them soak for a while and then carefully try to move the springs down, taking the plungers with them, using the end of a screwdriver or something similarly flat. Keep using solvent until all plungers are free, then crank the engine until clean diesel runs from the barrels. Check the rack has freed, re-fit the delivery valves and pipes etc.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

Just remember not to mix the delivery valves and guides, keep them each to where they came from and strictly clean. Once everything moves nicely reassemble before trying it, as that will help to keep dirt out.
Sandy
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John b
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by John b »

It may be worth removing the pump cam and plungers completely to clean them up. It's not a bad job to do as long as you are methodical and not in a hurry, and the front seal can also be replaced at the same time. There are rollers on the bottom of the plungers and if they stick (which i have come across with stuck plungers) it will cause a flat spot on them, ruining them and wearing the cam. Then you are looking at an expensive bill for new parts and to have the pump re-calibrated. It really isn't as scary as it looks to strip the bottom of the pump, there is no need to go anywhere near the delivery valves or adjustments and it will save a fortune if it's just a case of stuck plungers
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

If you do dismantle the pump don't mix any bits, ensure no dirt can get near it and be careful. Don't interfere with the rack forks or the maximum fuel stop or a re-calibration will be needed. Before you reattach the no. 1 delivery valve, fit the holder leaving the valve, volume reducer and spring out and fit a spare fuel pipe, connect a pipe to the fuel filter and pump the lift pump hard while bringing the coupling marks in line, when fuel stops flowing from the no. 1 element stop immediately and check the alignment of the timing marks; take good pics and measure it, as this is the point that must be timed at 23ºBTDC with cylinder no. 1 on compression (all of this is if you remove the coupling flange from the camshaft only). Once that's done you can complete reassembly. Ensure the cambox has oil or diesel in it to avoid under-lubrication.
Sandy
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John b
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by John b »

The front coupler should be keyed so will only go in one place, it was on all the pumps i have done but that doesn't mean they all are. I know it detracts slightly from originality, but if i was running a major on bio diesel i would drill and tap a small hole in the pump cover and fit a short bolt and fibre washer. That way its easy to add a couple of squirts of engine oil into the pump every couple of weeks to stop the plungers sticking
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

The key will have a bit of play, so it's important to ensure the spill point is accurately determined, as the timing is by spill point and will be affected by a movement in the coupling to camshaft alignment. It will be better to fill the cambox with engine oil first, as lubrication will be much better with oil than with diesel.
Sandy
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John b
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by John b »

Spill timing is the accurate way i agree, but i always find it easier to do it when the pump is re fitted. The pumps were only lubed by oil after a rebuild, they rely on diesel that leaks past the delivery valves for lubrication, a retired Simms pump engineer told me that. As far as i know, bio diesel isn't good at lubrication, thats why i'd add oil evey couple of weeks if i wasn't using standard diesel
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by Billy26F5 »

My point on setting the spill point is to avoid having to time the pump by trial and error, which although perfectly doable it does require a good ear on engine sounds.
Sandy
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relick
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by relick »

Thank you all soooo much for taking the time to reply. This old girl is close to my heart and I don't want this to be her demise.....
Once she is running I know I've got an issue with the clutch (only one stage working) and probably hydraulics, but one thing at a time!!
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I guess that more of the hard varnish looking coating on the inside of the side cover is what's causing my problems.
Relick

1958 Fordson Power Major

relick
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by relick »

shepp wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:05 pm
( or is it chip pan oil??!!)
No it was Bio Diesel that I made, what was in the tank still looked good but nothing but the real thing from now on, with a good diesel additive I might add.
Relick

1958 Fordson Power Major

John b
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by John b »

If you decide to strip the bottom of the pump and have any questions just ask, i have an old pump under the bench and can easily take it apart and take some pics for you. Just be careful tightening the bolts on the cam end plates, the threads in the pump body strip very easily!
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

relick
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Location: Kuranda, Northern Queensland, Australia.

Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by relick »

PROGRESS!! 3 plungers are now moving normally, only the one towards the front of the pump is still stuck. The rack is moving but sluggish to return.
It was the heat gun that finally seemed to do it, after a few days of continually spraying with carbie clean solvent and penetrating fluid alternately. Debating now whether to pull the governor off for a look..........
Relick

1958 Fordson Power Major

John b
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by John b »

Free off the last plunger and oil everythig, keep adding oil until it comes out of the pigtail.Slacken the injector pipes at the injectors and bleed the pump. Crank the engine over until you get diesel coming out of the injector pipes, the delivery valves are probably very dry and gummed up and this may be causing the rack to move slowly, hopefully when they have diesel through them they will losen up
John
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

John b
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Re: 59 Power Major revival

Post by John b »

Might aslo be worth adding a can of injector cleaner to the tank after you get it running too
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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