Fordson new major - problems

[Gav101]

I've owned a E1A 1954 for a couple of years now but am a novice in terms of tractor ownership and maintenance. I used it a fair bit when I first got it and it performed really well other than some gear change issues which I was managing to live with - it would get stuck in a gear after heavy work and the high/low isn't working. Over the summer this year I gave it a quick service, just oil, filter, air filter etc. but other than warming the engine didn't really use it until this autumn. When it was time to put it to work, just using a flail mower on long grass it wasn't happy - had some blow by through the crankcase and loss of compression. I am wondering if this is down to lack of use (it needed to build up heat/compression?) or is it an oil problem - I used Castrol classic xl30 on the service which I thought was a good quality oil for the old engine but should I have used something thicker.

When I came to do the service I noticed that the oil level in the gear section was low, this may be why I was having the gear change issues . Anyway I filled it to the correct level but have noticed small bubbles in the oil after I've used the tractor. The oil level seems to be unchanged. I know there can be issues with the seal going between the gear and transmission reservoirs but I don't think that is happening. Any ideas why I am getting the bubbles and should i be concerned?

Thanks

[John b]

I wouldn't worry about the bubbles in the gearbox oil, its just from the oil being churned around by the gears. Are the gears any better since you topped up the oil?

[Billy26F5]

SAE 30HD is what you want for the engine. Try tightening the high low lever on (unless you have the early type held by a pin, in which case you'll just have to live with it) to see if you can get it to work. You need to do hard ploughing to see if the engine is ok.
Sandy

[Gav101]

I wouldn't worry about the bubbles in the gearbox oil, its just from the oil being churned around by the gears. Are the gears any better since you topped up the oil?

Thanks that is a relief - they do seem a bit less sticky but I haven't had time to use it much since the occasion when it lost compression.

[Gav101]

SAE 30HD is what you want for the engine. Try tightening the high low lever on (unless you have the early type held by a pin, in which case you'll just have to live with it) to see if you can get it to work. You need to do hard ploughing to see if the engine is ok.
Sandy

Thanks! I've just checked and the oil I used Castrol Classic XL30 and its says it is a SAE30 monograde oil - whatever that means - so I should be ok I think. The new oil was less think than the old, I think some time since the last change. Is that a possible reason for the loss of compression?

Last outing there was no way it was capable of any ploughing it struggled with the flail mower but the previous time I'd used it, again with the flail mower, it performed really well and cut thick grass and scrub as if it was butter. I just wondered whether lack of use can be an issue with these old tractors. Otherwise I guess its wear and tear and I probably need to look at engine overhaul and valves and pistons.

Great tip about the high low lever I'll have a look at that.

[Emiel]

Hi,

Did you measure compression or do you assume you have loss of compression based on the blow by? A bit of smoke from the crankcase vent is not uncommon for little used tractors. This can be some moisture which condensed over time and finds a way out when engine warms up.

Personally I wouldn’t fill up a straight 30 oil these days where multi grades are available. But I can’t imagine it causes your trouble.

Did you check your fuel flow and did you change your fuel filter as well? You might have an add up of some small problems.

I had such issues with a Hanomag tractor where the solution was fitting a fresh fuel filter. There some glue like gum was formed, which seems to be bacteria growth in diesel with water in it.

If everything is checked and ok I suggest to give it a good work out.

Regards emiel

[John b]

Just had to re-write my post, i was going to ask about the fuel filter and compression test too! How long was it parked up, and was it in or outside? If any rainwater gets into a cylinder it can cause the rings to stick, but a compression test would show this up as there would be a low reading on 1 or 2 cylinders

[shepp]

Castrol Classic 30 is not a detergent oil suitable for diesel engines, it is meant for the early petrol engines pre 1950. Although it can be used in early car gearboxes it will not have the additives and film properties for heavier duty gearbox operations in a Major gearbox or rear axle. You need an HD30 oil, HD for Heavy Duty. As others say I would use a Universal Tractor oil such as a Super Universal Tractor Oil (SUTO) , e.g. Gulf SUTO or a similar oil in other brands. These are detergent oils suitable for diesel engines but with other additives making them suitable for use in Tractor transmissions and hydraulics. You MUST have a detergent oil for use in diesel engines. Also be aware that these days we also have Universal Tractor Transmission Oils, or UTTO, these are for transmissions ONLY, do not confuse them with SUTO oils which are for engines and transmissions!!

With regard to your power loss, be sure that your in tank fuel filter is clean, you will have to unscrew the tap from the fuel tank as the filter is on the end of the tap, clean the mesh filter in the fuel lift pump, change the paper fuel filter element if you have not already done so, whilst doing all this check for any water anywhere in the fuel system. Be sure there is a big glow of fuel FREE FROM BUBBLES at the injection pump bleed screw when you open the screw and operate the hand lever on the lift pump. If this checks out be sure your air cleaner inlet, mesh and oil bowl are clean, and the pipe from the air cleaner to the inlet manifold is not collapsing internally when subject to vacuum when the engine is running. Engines don't usually deteriorate suddenly just from standing and not being used, there will be an explanation somewhere for your loss of power.

[Billy26F5]

In first gear you should definitely be able to plough, but as the others say, do a good service first, you might find lots of dirt in the fuel tank, which is not easy to clean (and it should be totally clean). A clogged air filter won't help either.
Sandy

[Gav101]

Hi,

Did you measure compression or do you assume you have loss of compression based on the blow by? A bit of smoke from the crankcase vent is not uncommon for little used tractors. This can be some moisture which condensed over time and finds a way out when engine warms up.

Personally I wouldn’t fill up a straight 30 oil these days where multi grades are available. But I can’t imagine it causes your trouble.

Did you check your fuel flow and did you change your fuel filter as well? You might have an add up of some small problems.

I had such issues with a Hanomag tractor where the solution was fitting a fresh fuel filter. There some glue like gum was formed, which seems to be bacteria growth in diesel with water in it.

If everything is checked and ok I suggest to give it a good work out.

Regards emiel

Thanks. I assumed it was loss of compression because of the blow by but also the lack of power at the PTO. The tractor wasnt coping to power the flail mower and virtually came to a stop. Ive checked the flail and it turns by hand so pretty sure that is not the problem.

Looks like i used the wrong engine oil so i will change that.

I haven’t changed the fuel filter that was on my to do list for this winter.

[Gav101]

Castrol Classic 30 is not a detergent oil suitable for diesel engines, it is meant for the early petrol engines pre 1950. Although it can be used in early car gearboxes it will not have the additives and film properties for heavier duty gearbox operations in a Major gearbox or rear axle. You need an HD30 oil, HD for Heavy Duty. As others say I would use a Universal Tractor oil such as a Super Universal Tractor Oil (SUTO) , e.g. Gulf SUTO or a similar oil in other brands. These are detergent oils suitable for diesel engines but with other additives making them suitable for use in Tractor transmissions and hydraulics. You MUST have a detergent oil for use in diesel engines. Also be aware that these days we also have Universal Tractor Transmission Oils, or UTTO, these are for transmissions ONLY, do not confuse them with SUTO oils which are for engines and transmissions!!

With regard to your power loss, be sure that your in tank fuel filter is clean, you will have to unscrew the tap from the fuel tank as the filter is on the end of the tap, clean the mesh filter in the fuel lift pump, change the paper fuel filter element if you have not already done so, whilst doing all this check for any water anywhere in the fuel system. Be sure there is a big glow of fuel FREE FROM BUBBLES at the injection pump bleed screw when you open the screw and operate the hand lever on the lift pump. If this checks out be sure your air cleaner inlet, mesh and oil bowl are clean, and the pipe from the air cleaner to the inlet manifold is not collapsing internally when subject to vacuum when the engine is running. Engines don't usually deteriorate suddenly just from standing and not being used, there will be an explanation somewhere for your loss of power.

Thanks. Ok looks like ive used the wrong engine oil then. I did do some research and on another forum was recommended not to use modern oils for the engine which included detergents because it can cause a problem with the seals. Mind you i expect that during its 70 year lifetime at some point the seals have been replaced so they are most likely made from more modern materials, i dont have the service history or know what oil had been used previously.

I havent looked at the fuel system at all yet but will do this winter all being well.

I did clean out the air filter thoroughly, which had signs of a birds or mouse nest in there, and replaced the oil in the oil bath and i replaced the hose on the air intake.

I need to get the tractor out again for a run and see how it is performing.

[Billy26F5]

I recommend you don't try running until the new fuel filter is on, you have the correct oil in and the fuel tank is clean. Don't forget to clean the sediment bowl on the lift pump either.
The transmission (gearbox and rear axle) should have SAE 90 in it, unless you want to use universal SAE 30HD.
Sandy

[shepp]

The recommended oil for this diesel engine ( any diesel engine ) was from it's introduction in 1951 and always has been an HD30 or HD20 engine oil depending on the season, HD30 or HD20 IS a detergent oil (!!!), later on the recommendation included a Universal Tractor Oil which are also detergent oils. The whole idea of detergent oils in diesel engines is to keep them clean and to take out substances produced by combustion that can cause problems such as ring gumming and sticking which results in reduced compression and performance. I don't know which site said do not use detergent oils but for diesel engines that is a load of rubbish! This engine should have been run on detergent oils from being new. Ford found out the importance of the correct oils big style when the 1000 series was introduced in 1964. The engines had been developed in the USA (although then after development manufactured in the UK) , where the use of Series 3 engine oils was routine and these engines were developed using Series 3 oils. Series 3 oils are not only detergent oils but high spec detergent oils. When the 1000 series tractors were launched in the UK in 1964 the initial oil recommendation for the engine included the ordinary HD30 and HD20 engine oils and Universal Tractor Oils that had been recommended and used on the previous Major and Dexta. Some farmers using the older HD30 and HD20 and Universal Tractor Oils on the new models ran into issues after a few months which included sticking rings, Ford eventually realised what the issue was and the oil recommendations for the engine were changed to Series 3 engine oils or SUPER Universal Tractor Oils which are also Series 3 oils.

I would go through the fuel system methodically checking for water/sludge in the fuel tank and blocked gauze filter on the tap, water/sludge in the lift pump bowl and blocked gauze filter in the top of the lift pump, and water/sludge in the main fuel filter and fit a new filter. Check the fuel flow at the injection pump bleed screw and that it is free from air bubbles - if air is being drawn into the fuel system somewhere the engine might still start and run but performance will be reduced.

[Gav101]

The recommended oil for this diesel engine ( any diesel engine ) was from it's introduction in 1951 and always has been an HD30 or HD20 engine oil depending on the season, HD30 or HD20 IS a detergent oil (!!!), later on the recommendation included a Universal Tractor Oil which are also detergent oils. The whole idea of detergent oils in diesel engines is to keep them clean and to take out substances produced by combustion that can cause problems such as ring gumming and sticking which results in reduced compression and performance. I don't know which site said do not use detergent oils but for diesel engines that is a load of rubbish! This engine should have been run on detergent oils from being new. Ford found out the importance of the correct oils big style when the 1000 series was introduced in 1964. The engines had been developed in the USA (although then after development manufactured in the UK) , where the use of Series 3 engine oils was routine and these engines were developed using Series 3 oils. Series 3 oils are not only detergent oils but high spec detergent oils. When the 1000 series tractors were launched in the UK in 1964 the initial oil recommendation for the engine included the ordinary HD30 and HD20 engine oils and Universal Tractor Oils that had been recommended and used on the previous Major and Dexta. Some farmers using the older HD30 and HD20 and Universal Tractor Oils on the new models ran into issues after a few months which included sticking rings, Ford eventually realised what the issue was and the oil recommendations for the engine were changed to Series 3 engine oils or SUPER Universal Tractor Oils which are also Series 3 oils.

I would go through the fuel system methodically checking for water/sludge in the fuel tank and blocked gauze filter on the tap, water/sludge in the lift pump bowl and blocked gauze filter in the top of the lift pump, and water/sludge in the main fuel filter and fit a new filter. Check the fuel flow at the injection pump bleed screw and that it is free from air bubbles - if air is being drawn into the fuel system somewhere the engine might still start and run but performance will be reduced.

Thanks for taking the time to explain, that really helps. So I think something like Castrol Agri MP Plus 10W-30 - Super universal tractor oil, would be a suitable engine oil. I've been reading up about the oil grades this afternoon, its surprisingly interesting

I will spend some time over the winter working through the fuel system as you suggested and give it a good clean out. Hopefully that will help sort things out.

[Gav101]

I recommend you don't try running until the new fuel filter is on, you have the correct oil in and the fuel tank is clean. Don't forget to clean the sediment bowl on the lift pump either.
The transmission (gearbox and rear axle) should have SAE 90 in it, unless you want to use universal SAE 30HD.
Sandy

Thanks good advice, I'll get to work on sorting things out before using it again. I'll have to have a good read through my manual to work out what's what before I start on the fuel system.

[Gav101]

Just had to re-write my post, i was going to ask about the fuel filter and compression test too! How long was it parked up, and was it in or outside? If any rainwater gets into a cylinder it can cause the rings to stick, but a compression test would show this up as there would be a low reading on 1 or 2 cylinders

Hi I haven't got around to changing the fuel filter but will give the fuel system a good clean soon as I get a chance. I have no idea what a compression test involves, but I haven't done one it was parked up for a year but I did warm it up probably once every 2 months. It's been inside a garage throughout so not any rainwater. I will do some research on compression tests now

[John b]

If it has been parked inside i would say its highly unlikely that the engine would have developed an internal problem from just being stood. As Shepp and Sandy say, give the fuel system a good clean and fit a new filter, there's a pretty good chance that will sort out the poor running. If, after servicing the fuel system you are still having problems, then maybe look at doing a compression test, but definitely do the fuel first
John

[Billy26F5]

I don't know which site said do not use detergent oils but for diesel engines that is a load of rubbish! This engine should have been run on detergent oils from being new.

I think that refers to modern detergent oils, which are quite different from the old SAE 30HD (or 20HD in winter, but that is more aimed at constant use), certainly do not use any synthetic oil, as that will cause accelerated wear in an engine designed for mineral oil.
Sandy

[Gav101]

I don't know which site said do not use detergent oils but for diesel engines that is a load of rubbish! This engine should have been run on detergent oils from being new.

I think that refers to modern detergent oils, which are quite different from the old SAE 30HD (or 20HD in winter, but that is more aimed at constant use), certainly do not use any synthetic oil, as that will cause accelerated wear in an engine designed for mineral oil.
Sandy

Hi Sandy, thanks for this. Oil is a more complex area than I realised - there is no hope for me if I cant even get that right. Would something like this https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/prod ... 0w-30.html be suitable then, it seems to be 100% mineral but has modern additives. I just want to be completely certain as I've already wasted a fair but of money buying the wrong oil which I will now need to take out again and replace

thanks Gav

[Billy26F5]

Now that you mention Morris, look at what Brian said here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4418
And here are his oils:
https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.u ... r-oil.html
https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.u ... r-oil.html
Sandy

[shepp]

There have been plenty of discussions on lubricants, such as "Oils for engine, hydraulics and gearbox" fairly recently. Morris Lubricants is a long established independent lubricant manufacturer with a wide range of lubricants for vehicles of all descriptions from vintage through to modern high performance types. Their "Golden Film" lubricants have been long respected and used by the farming industry from the days of the earliest TVO tractors onwards to todays modern high performance monsters. You will find all the oils you need in their range.