Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

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Timeee
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Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Timeee »

My local fuel supplier has just sent me a news sheet on the changes the government are making to the use of red diesel with effect from 1 April 2022. I have 2 Fordson Super Majors registered as "Agric Tractor", which I use only for agricultural tasks such as fencing, topping, seed bed preparation and small bale hay making for mainly local horse paddock owners, as I have no agricultural land of my own. These changes to the use of red diesel were evidently announced in the 2020 Budget.

I have bought red diesel in 45 gallon drums for many years to run my Fordsons and 2 other classic tractors. As they are Agricultural Tractors the HODA 1979 regulations says they can use red diesel for off road use. I don't go on road runs (apart from travelling from field to field) and have never entered my tractors in shows, so feel that my use is strictly agricultural use only. I am sure that some bean counter somewhere will no doubt have an alternative view.

The changes state that I will not be able to use red diesel to power a small diesel generator used to power light and tools in my rented sheds that have no mains power, as this is for a commercial use, not agriculture. Has the classic tractor movement obtained a firm direction from HMRC as to what we are allowed to burn in our tractors and exactly what uses are exempt? ie clear definitions as to what is agricultural use.

The "advice" I was given was that fuel filters should be changed and fuel tanks flushed out to eradicate all signs of red diesel by 1 Apr 2022 if not used for "agricultural" purposes.

Timee

mathias1
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by mathias1 »

Hi Timeee,

where are you located? Could be usefull for other members.
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Billy26F5
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

I'm not sure of the British situation, but it seems they're trying to tax old tractors there. Over here I think we could still get red diesel, but we haven't got it for ages, our last 2 gallons have cleaned out Super Billy's fuel tank out for the last two years and will be used for non running uses as it's far too dirty for any engine (it came from the half Super Major, already filthy). Cleaning the fuel tank is a hard job, so make sure you know for sure that you need to do it, although if it looks dirty it's probably worth it anyway.
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by John b »

My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

I can't undestand how a ploughing match is not an "agricultural purpose", as the farmer host would probably need that field ploughed anyway, and in hosting the match may well get a better job done as the ploughing is done in competition rather than as a time consuming chore. I wonder if the host decided to participate in the match wheather that would be penalised too (he's decided to host the match on his own field and is doing some of his work compeeting with other farmers rather than on his own).
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John b
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by John b »

Just shows how out of touch with real life those who make these stupid revenue grabbing decisions are. I work in construction and the price of materials is killing the industry already. Fuel prices are extortionate anyway so now the HMRC and the government want to squeeze more. How much is it going to cost to police the use of red diesel? Probably more than will be raised in fines, and as for banning the use of red diesel for (mostly charity) tractor runs and ploughing matches, what a joke!
Penguins, pelicans and HMRC have all got one thing in common, they can all shove their bills up their arse!
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

I must say that we're not much better here, with other things being done in the same line. The electrics are getting so expensive they'll soon be cheaper from Billy than from the grid if they aren't already, and that's including a filter and oil change every week!
All I see from this is that they're doing their best to sell useless electric vehicles (that will never survive what any Major will in time or abuse) and do little else (they don't seem to have realised that gas is not that different from coal or oil in power stations), and then make those electric vehicles far too expensive for anyone (to buy and run).
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Emiel
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Emiel »

Hi,

Same kind of ununderstandable regulation here in the netherlands.

Took some years after red diesel was stopped for us before I used it all up. Never cleaned a tank. Do replace filters regularly though.

Never had anybody checking my fuel tanks with tractors. Customs used to check diesel passenger cars and lorry’s in the past quite regularly.

Drove an old farmer green Mercedes 20 years ago. Typically a farmer car on diesel. Many times when I drove on the motorway close to the German border with not too high speed, customs would drive behind me and checking my registration. Once they found out it was a petrol fuelled car they overtook me.

Think red diesel is only allowed for stationary applications and ships these days in the Netherlands.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

Billy26F5
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

Emiel wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:53 pm
Think red diesel is only allowed for stationary applications and ships these days in the Netherlands.
Seems you're even more restricted already!
I've never known of any tests here, I would guess only Kenny would be detected "clean" as all the others have had red diesel when we still got it.
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Hair Bear »

Probably doesn't help, but this link appears to suggest charity and promotional will be allowed.
https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/red-dies ... -clarified
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

It seems they've discovered what ploughing matches are all about!
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John b
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by John b »

I think that article may be from the last time they had a crackdown on red diesel, this one says it is now banned
https://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/new ... road-runs/
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

At least they seem to be bringing it up in Parliament, something you'd never see here without injuries. There are no grounds for not qualifying a ploughing match as an agricultural activity.
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Timeee
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Timeee »

For Mathias

I am not sure how many other countries have Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC), nor the Hydrocarbon Oil Duty Act 1979, but for information, I am located in Dorset, England.

I think I shall write to my MP to find out exactly what the score is........unless he is partying.

Timeee

mathias1
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by mathias1 »

Here in Belgium it's depends on the use of the tractor.

Agriculture and fanatics: red diesel. Also no need for a technical control every year.

If you use it as a firm to do transport work in construction: white diesel and you also need a technical control (or whatever it's called in english) every year.
When you do both, you can use red diesel, but need to pay the additional taxes.

Seems like UK people won the lottery with the golden boy Boris. :shock: I can't really think of something that went better since he's the man there.
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Billy26F5
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

Good to know that you're still able to work freely in your fields Mathias.
The partygate seems to beat itself every day, and that apart from exporting all new Covid variants available, Johnson's government has only made bad decisions to increase the members' own pocket. I must say that over here it's not all that different.
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shepp
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by shepp »

The Government's argument is that banning the use of red diesel outside of agricultural use will force the manufacturers of construction equipment, generators etc etc to develop "greener" power units for those machines - quite what they have in mind as suitable fuels I do not know, a machine that is running all day like an excavator cannot stop to recharge batteries and battery technology is not advanced enough yet (and may well never be) to hold sufficient charge.

Where is the generating capacity going to come from anyway to power all these electric cars, trucks, buses, excavators etc?? If trouble erupts in Ukraine, Putin will turn off Europe's gas, the gas fired power stations will shut down and even the lights will go out! It has always been unwise to have all your eggs in one basket, always have alternatives on hand.

Banning red diesel for ploughing matches is as petty as needing a TVO licence to mix petrol with untaxed kerosene for TVO tractors, just creating work for the minions and jobsworths.

John, I agree that it will hit the construction sector badly, already being hit with a bombshell over continually escalating raw material prices. I had a young chap from Buckinghamshire called up last week to collect a rare book on and produced by Rushton tractors which he bought unseen and paid for some time ago. He has a building company, and he was telling me that down in his part of the world bricklayers want £250 per day, and if you do not pay that much they will simply move on to another firm, there is so much demand for their services.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by John b »

It's typical of the UK government, promise to make the country carbon neutral by 2050 but with no bloody clue how to do it. Seems the gap between town and country is growing wider, it's fine to block roads and protest about the planet but they still expect the supermarkets to be full of food that has to be affordable. A friend's daughter was preaching to me about the environment while eating a packet of crisps, i pointed out that potato growers use tractors that use 300+ litres of fuel a day to make them! Instead of taxing the sh*t out of hard working people and easy targets, go after the luxury sector which seems to waste money and energy with no real benefit to anyone. Fast food delivered to the door because people are too bloody lazy to cook, getting on a plane for a day trip to New York, having to get a new smart phone every 2 weeks as the old one is out of fashion, i could rant all day! We will never be carbon neutral because those that can afford it will never give up being greedy, so because the government have to be seen to be doing something its the rest of us 'dirty working class' that have to suffer as easy targets,. And when their plans for unicorns farting rainbows in a pollution free world don't work out it will be the fault of the machine manufacturers for not finding a suitable engine that runs on grass. I'm no eco warrior by the way, the smoke from my JCB proves that, just someone trying to earn a living who is sick of politicians and hypocrites!!!
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Billy26F5
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

I can't watch the news without ranting away for ages and ages. Stopping polluting is only half the job (not that they've ever really considered that at all, only their profits from forcing people to replace everything all the time), you then have to remove all the pollutants, and that hasn't even been heard of by any government. Luxuries must definitely go, and all the consumerism with essential things too, as that would save an enormous proportion of pollution. Badly treated engines are massively worse than good ones, and they don't seem at all aware of that. The only thing that's needed to end these troubles is to close the cycle, which they find very scary because it will end their "infinite profits". Agree 100% that manufacturers will get the blame for their policy not working, as the rest of us will too.
I better stop before I fill several pages full of harsh comments on politics!
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Daves rusty bits
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Daves rusty bits »

I have 2 tractors, a 1959 Power Major and a 1975 International 475. Over the last few years DVLA has changed the taxation class of both tractors from Agricultural machine to Historic vehicle on the basis of age. There has to be an ulteria motive here.Dave
1960 Power Major, 1975 International 475 - well no ones perfect.

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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by John b »

I see more and more older, smaller tractors being put back to work as they are far more economical, a Ford 4000 will do alot the jobs the big ones are used for, a bit slower and not as luxurious but far cheaper. The dealers yards are full of 3-4 year old tractors that they can't sell, the big farms have new or lease ones but how many smaller farms want or can afford to buy a £25000+ tractor that has been thrashed to death with no warranty that will cost £5000+ to have a clutch pack fitted when it goes? With the cost of fuel going through the roof it will soon be more economical to run 2 older, smaller tractors and employ someone to drive the other than it will to run one diesel guzzling monster. Not to mention the saving on parts and labour if you can do alot of the maintainance yourself without having to rely on a technician with a laptop charging £150 an hour!
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

Daves rusty bits
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Daves rusty bits »

The reason I bought a Major was for working in the woods,sawbench on the back, log splitter on the front, no cab or glass to get in the way and it will always start and it will do a full days work on around 20 or so litres of diesel.Likewise the International, perkins engine cheap to run, loader on front and winch on the back and totally shabby but it works for me.Dave
1960 Power Major, 1975 International 475 - well no ones perfect.

shepp
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by shepp »

On the subject of maintenance costs of these modern tractors, I see that 2 parties have just issued proceedings in the USA against John Deere, claiming that they are attempting to monopolise the maintenance and repair of their machines. The company promised 3 or 4 years ago that they would remove the restrictions on their authorised dealers that prevented those dealers from providing essential diagnostic software to farmer customers and to other non- authorised repairers. The company also promised to make that diagnostic software generally available but have not done so, hence the lawsuits against this anticompetitive behaviour. It was said that JD dealers make 5 or 6 times the margin on their diagnostic and repair activities than they do on machine sales.

Ford 4000 - what a great gutsy tractor! Agree entirely.

I don't think taxation class will affect the legality of using red diesel, the Historic Vehicle taxation class is universally and automatically applied to all vehicles registered after 1981(??) , it will be the actual use the tractor is put to.

On a brighter note, Bentley have announced the introduction of all electric models, that will benefit a lot of people........................ Well, seriously, it WILL secure the jobs of the workers at the Crewe factory, at least that is a good thing!
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

Billy26F5
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by Billy26F5 »

A Major is still better than anything else because if you need lots of different machines (a JCB, tractor, forklift and lorry for example) you can use a single engine with a massive reduction in required spares coupled to the good starting and running (cleaning and servicing is also far easier). 4.5 gallons of fuel per day is a superb figure, especially when you consider what can be done; we can plough one of our fields with four passes using just one gallon in 4 hours' running at full power (that's what Billy does).
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John b
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Re: Use of Red Diesel After 1 April 2022

Post by John b »

Couple of great old tractors Dave, perfect for working in the woods, economical too. About time some of these manufacturers were brought to book Shepp. A lad i know said a local dealer came to sort out an electrical problem on his New Holland, the mechanic spent 3 hours sat in the cab with a laptop before admitting defeat and telling him it would need to go into the workshop for a few days. He decided to have a look himself and found a loose fuse, bent the contacts back in and it sorted the problem. He then got a bill for £440 from the dealer for labour, he promptly told them where to shove it! As for the Bently, must be a bloody big battery!!!! You're right about the major engine Sandy, one box of spares for everything
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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