The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Regarding taxation class, I understand that red diesel is permitted in tractors ‘taxed as an agricultural machine’.
A neighbour was stopped by the Revenue while carrying a unusual (but legal) load. Investigations showed that the road tax had expired, therefore not taxed as an agricultural machine.
Result: large on the spot fine, or vehicle impounded.

I too have had taxation class automatically changed to historic, so technically it shouldn’t be on red.

Over here I think a vehicle can only be classified as historic by active action by the owner, and I think you're then not allowed to use your vehicle for its purpose. I don't know of restrictions on red diesel in that sense but they probably are there knowing the way the system here operates.
Sandy

Two questions spring to mind.
Who's going to be the first to start whining when farmers can't/refuse help the council with snow clearing?
If your tractor is registered on a 'Q' plate it can't be taxed historic as it has no date of manufacture on the v5 so it would have to stay ag and run on red?

In the UK vehicles used in agriculture can still be used for cutting hedges and verges, clearing snow and gritting roads whilst running on red diesel.

The point about a "Q" plate registered tractor is an interesting one, with no date of manufacture being able to be ascertained, hence the "Q" plate ( for Query). In the UK the tax rate for Historic Vehicle class is zero, but the rate for agricultural machine is now also zero. So if a tractor does any farm work is it better to have it taxed as an agricultural machine to be on the right side of the law for red diesel usage? I know when the historic vehicle class was first introduced many farmers changed over to that tax class on their qualifying tractors to save a few quid in road tax, and many will still be taxed Historic whilst using red diesel. Since the government reduced the Agricultural Machine tax class to zero, perhaps better to be safe and change back from Historic to Agricultural I would think.

Surely even if a tractor is classed as historic it can still run on red if it's being used for agriculture. Plant machinery can still use red diesel if it's used for agricultural purposes, eg using a digger to put up livestock fencing, and they aren't taxed as agricultural vehicles. I may be wrong but i haven't seen any mention of taxation class in the articles i have read, only that a tractor can use red diesel if it's used solely for agricultural purposes and not road runs or rallies, but there's nowhere that says you can't drain the tank and change the filters and put white diesel in it, it's just different fuels for differnt tasks. Just because a vehicle is classed as historic, it doesn't change what it is or does, thats how i read it anyway, for what it's worth!

John b wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:11 pm

Surely even if a tractor is classed as historic it can still run on red if it's being used for agriculture. Plant machinery can still use red diesel if it's used for agricultural purposes, eg using a digger to put up livestock fencing, and they aren't taxed as agricultural vehicles. I may be wrong but i haven't seen any mention of taxation class in the articles i have read, only that a tractor can use red diesel if it's used solely for agricultural purposes and not road runs or rallies, but there's nowhere that says you can't drain the tank and change the filters and put white diesel in it, it's just different fuels for differnt tasks. Just because a vehicle is classed as historic, it doesn't change what it is or does, thats how i read it anyway, for what it's worth!

I agree to that, but I don't know what has been written, so I don't know if what I think is right.
Sandy

There seems to be alot of confusion about all this, I may be completely wrong and have missed something, i just haven't seen any link between red diesel use and taxation class, only purpose of use

I'll try and find the article, It went something along the lines of 'At 40 years the vehicle is automatically changed to historic, and as such cannot use rebated fuel as it is no longer agri'.
I've been through so much info (right and wrong) on this subject it could take a while. Unfortunately from a work and time point of view the crazy confusion over the new highway code rules has somewhat taken priority over the red diesel issue atm.

Q-plate can be registered as historic, 40 years after registration.

Wasn't aware of that one, thanks.

I wasn't saying you were wrong Rob, just that i haven't seen anything about taxation class and red diesel. I still don't see how just classing a vehicle as historic changes it's use, but when do most government rules make any sense?

Sorry, what I meant was I'd try and find it to reread it myself! There's a good chance I've misunderstood it...

John b wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:21 am

when do most government rules make any sense?

I always wonder about this, here they never do make any sense to anyone other than the government club and their rich friends.
Sandy

I agree the tax class should not make any difference to whether red diesel can be used, it should be just the type of use that determines that issue, but if there is uncertainty and no definitive HMRC statement on the issue (and I have not seen one yet) then perhaps better to be one step ahead of the customs man. A building contractor in Wales has told the BBC that banning the use of red diesel in his machines is going to cost him an extra £200,000 a year in fuel costs.

I can well believe it, it will add £10-15 per day running a 1.5 ton mini digger. Be interesting to see how strictly they police this, every generator, workshop heater and diesel steam pressure washer in the uk, i think the general opinion is that it's just the next stage in stopping rebated fuel altogether. Cutting out the use of fossil fuels is fine as long as there is a viable alternative, but crippling industry to do it is a hardly a solution. The world seems wholly reliant on 2 things as far as i can see, fuel and the internet. If either or both failed it's frightening that there is no real alternative or back up, we would truely be up the well known creek!

The don't seem to have thought of what the problem they're dealing with is, as their actions will only worsen an already hellish situation. By the way, I think if there were no fuel the internet would go too as it needs electricity which in turn needs fuel. At least the Major's will ignore the loss of internet as they only need fuel, oil and coolant!
Sandy