The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Guys,
Might sound a bit stupid here, but I want to try and turn over and at least get it to try and fire
On my international 434
I’ve taken battery cable from starter motor to + on battery
Taken earth from engine direct to - on battery

I’ve not got any other wires connected as just want to hear it fire

I’ve taken a live from battery to terminal on solinoid

It turns over well, I’ve bled all pipes and have diesel going to injectors

I’ve even held a positive wire direct onto glow plugs
But still nothing

Am I missing something stupid

( never have this trouble with my Super Major )

Thanks
Jim

You might need to check the timing, this is the most typical symptom of bad timing. Otherwise, try an injector test, and while the injectors are out I suggest you test the compression as well.
Sandy

Thanks, I will try injector test

Tractor was driven into the barn 15 years ago so don’t think timing has altered

Hi Jim, as Sandy says, check the compression as you may have stuck piston rings if it has stood for a long time. Try removing the air pipe from the manifold and firing a blowtorch down there while turning it over, if your glow plugs are shot it will give you the heat you need to start it without resorting to the evil can of easystart!

Did you get a spark when you connected the heater plugs? If not there's a good chance they're not working. From memory these engines are not good starters from cold without plenty of glow plug action (20 secs at least). +1 on Johns blowlamp suggestion. Don't mix heater plugs or blowlamp with easystart. The result will get plenty of views on utube but you'll likley be looking for bits on the far side of the paddock.
Did you check the air cleaner pipes for nests etc. before turning it over?

Hi,

First check for me would be valves opening and closing and sealing.

I’m not familiar with British built ih tractors, but if they’re comparable I’m the engine department to the German types you might need a fast spinning starter. A pull start might be an option for the initial start up.

If it runs it’s worth more so a trade in for a tractor will be easier.

As mentioned, these engines won’t start without functioning glowplugs. Since they’re wired in series, if one fails that’s it.
While cranking, does the exhaust smoke? If so, you probably have fuel being injected. If not, bleed it again; two points on the pump, then loosen one or two injector lines and crank. After a few seconds there should be a healthy spurt from each.
As you state, it’s much simpler on a Major.

Thanks all for the advice,
Not having a compression tester at hand ,
I can answer your following questions
1, nothing in the air intake it’s all stripped down
2, no spark at the glow plugs and when I took one out and held it to the battery it did not glow .
3, I have puffs coming out of the exhaust manifold and got good suction in the inlet manifold
4, I resorted to spraying easy start down the inlet manifold but still nothing

I’ve ordered a set of new glow plugs and a set of recon fuel injectors and a compression tester
So will report back next week with an update

Many thanks for all your help so far

Jim
True Blue with a hint of Red

If easy start doesn't work it could be something quite serious, but I would wait for the new bits before checking anything else.
Sandy

As far as injection and valve timing goes these engines have gear timing of both items so no chance of any timing settings having altered from new build. If the tractor has stood for a long time the bores pistons and rings will be dry, rings might possibly have stuck in the grooves so compression will be down possibly to the point where the compressed air is not at sufficient temperature to ignite the injected fuel. Take the rocker cover off, crank the engine and check that all valves are opening and closing, check the valve tappet clearances, check for any broken valve springs. When the injectors are out ready for the reconditioned ones to be fitted, squirt a few shots of engine oil from an oil can or a good spray of WD40 into the injector openings of each cylinder, leave for a few minutes then crank the engine on the starter to distribute the oil onto the bores, rings and valves before refitting the new injectors. Full operation of all glow plugs is necessary for these engines to start readily from cold. Another point is on the fuel side, better to drain the old diesel off which might have evaporated somewhat in storage leading to high wax levels in the fuel in the tank. Refill with new diesel, fit new filters and bleed the system. If the tractor had been stored with the engine stop control left pulled out then the fuel cutoff mechanism inside the injection pump might not have properly and fully reset itself when the stop has been pushed back in, quite a common occurrence on DPA pumps on engines that have been stored for a long time, you will only confirm this by taking off the top cover on the pump. Give the outside of the pump a few light taps with a hammer whilst pulling the stop control in and out a few times then push the stop in. Plenty of possible issues here, do the above checks first and oil the bores, fit recon injectors and new glowplugs , change the diesel and filters, bleed the system and see how you go.

Thanks Sandy

I’ll work my way thru the list this week end and keep you all posted

Thanks again

Jim

Hi Guys
Just to give you an update,
Took out glow plugs squirted oil into bores, left for a week
Did compression test got 250-300 in pots 1,2,& 3
But pot 4 only got 50 psi
Not took off rocker cover yet to check valves
Have changed diesel for fresh and new filter, got fuel back up to injectors

Do you think it’s head off, sump off and take out pot 4

Thanks
Jim

If it is an issue on number 4 cylinder valves you will be able to hear the blow by past the valves when you crank the engine with the stop control pulled out. Have you managed to start the engine yet? I would really have the rocker cover off ( its an easy job) and check the valve springs and valve clearance on all valves but particularly no 4 before you do much more. The compression figures on the other 3 cylinders are good.

I agree with Shepp, if you try to turn the engine by hand you should hear the leak even better, I suspect a valve might need regrinding, but it could be more serious. The other three cylinders should have fired with compression as good as that, especially if I'm right in thinking it's not that cold with you (hellish hot here as usual in recent times).
Sandy

Any luck, Jim?