Halfshaft identification and seal help

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EdWaters
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Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by EdWaters »

Hi, I’m hoping someone can identify this halfshaft for me, it has a removable collar that the bearing sits against. I’m guessing it could be an industrial? The problem I have is that the new seal and metal retainer it does not sit up the shaft enough compared to the other side. I think I need a different seal and retainer but struggling to find anything or failing that a different halfshaft. Here are the pics attached thanks in advance
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33378887@ ... en-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33378887@ ... en-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33378887@ ... en-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33378887@ ... en-public/

mathias1
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by mathias1 »

Can you make a picture of the other side?
I see the old seal in the background, it looks like a normal seal to me.
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Billy26F5
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Billy26F5 »

That half shaft apperas to have imense wear, there is no separate collar, so I can only think that it's been interfeared with beforehand. Did you remove a tapered roller bearing? If not this collar is probably the old bearing inner race. I'm afraid you now have a very difficult repair to do, unless you find a better half shaft which might well be worth doing. There are often many mistakes with repro parts, but I think the rear axle seals are one if the few they get right, the fitted seal and shaft should look like this:
Image
I'm afraid we don't have any pic of a good shaft as we haven't needed to replace this seal, but I remember that a T&M restoration of a Roadless Power Major in 2010 has good views of the overhaul they did of their half shafts and what they looked like.
I would also quite like to see the other side too.
Sandy
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mathias1
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by mathias1 »

Picture of one of my tractors.
I did need to modify the new seal to fix it
I can not see where the extra collar is used
Attachments
IMG_20180123_211511.jpg
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

EdWaters
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by EdWaters »

Thanks for your replies that photo is exactly the same as mine with the collar attached to the shaft. Can I ask how you modified the seal to fit as it won’t go far enough onto the shaft to fit about almost 10mm further out to the other side with the standard super major shaft on.

mathias1
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by mathias1 »

EdWaters wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:21 pm
Thanks for your replies that photo is exactly the same as mine with the collar attached to the shaft. Can I ask how you modified the seal to fit as it won’t go far enough onto the shaft to fit about almost 10mm further out to the other side with the standard super major shaft on.
I did cut off the outer ring. I hope the pictures will make it easier to understand.
the first picture has the complete seal, the second one is how i got it fitted.
Attachments
IMG_20180204_154610_1.jpg
IMG_20180403_142808.jpg
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

mathias1
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by mathias1 »

Notice that my axle has a little diamond. This might be the not so standard heavy duty axle.
this picture is the one I put on the Super 4
Attachments
IMG_20191124_205026.jpg
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
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Billy26F5
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Billy26F5 »

It's looking a bit like the sizes might not be right, don't do anything yet, I'll try to measure Billy's shaft and seal externally tomorrow, it could be that industrial shafts are different - I've just looked at the parts book and they are indeed! I'll give you Billy's measurements tomorow, I think you should start thinking about recovering the original retainers, as they're different too, the seal isn't different however. If you can measure the new and old parts as well we should then see what's wrong.
Sandy
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Emiel
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Emiel »

I’ve done some super rear axles in the past where I needed to modify the seal housings due to the exact same problem. Just cut of the exces part and have no further notice. Did work for me and it sealed also.

I assumed it were heavy duty ones as well. Couldn’t get the right type of seal for these ones.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

mathias1
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by mathias1 »

Emiel wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:46 pm
I’ve done some super rear axles in the past where I needed to modify the seal housings due to the exact same problem. Just cut of the exces part and have no further notice. Did work for me and it sealed also.

I assumed it were heavy duty ones as well. Couldn’t get the right type of seal for these ones.
Yep, for standard axles it will fit, the heavy duty ones not.
Emiel, will you go to Dongen this friday?
Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

Billy26F5
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Billy26F5 »

Billy26F5 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:59 pm
I'll give you Billy's measurements tomorow
I'm afraid it won't be till mid morning, but I should have them by then, I'll also measure Super Billy for comparison, also completely original.
Sandy
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Emiel
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Emiel »

mathias1 wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:03 pm

Yep, for standard axles it will fit, the heavy duty ones not.
Emiel, will you go to Dongen this friday?
Hi, I’ve other duties on Friday I’m afraid. What’s going on in Dongen? A ford gathering?
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

mathias1
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by mathias1 »

Emiel wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:17 am
mathias1 wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:03 pm

Yep, for standard axles it will fit, the heavy duty ones not.
Emiel, will you go to Dongen this friday?
Hi, I’ve other duties on Friday I’m afraid. What’s going on in Dongen? A ford gathering?
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Fordson Super Major New Performance
County Super 4 built on the Fordson Super Major
Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

Emiel
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Emiel »

mathias1 wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:28 am
Emiel wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:17 am
mathias1 wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:03 pm

Yep, for standard axles it will fit, the heavy duty ones not.
Emiel, will you go to Dongen this friday?
Hi, I’ve other duties on Friday I’m afraid. What’s going on in Dongen? A ford gathering?
Blue force praatavond
Ahaa thanks. I’m supposed to be at my daughters horse riding club.
Best regards

Emiel

N 1937, E27N 1948, 8N 1949, E27N 1950, E1A Diesel 1953, E1ADKN PP 1956, Dexta 1959, NH Clayson M103 1964

Billy26F5
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Billy26F5 »

I finally managed to measure Billy and Super Billy, they're both the std. type, the measurements aren't as accurate as I would like because our calliper isn't big enough. The red ones are diameters, the blue ones are between the blue lines parallel to the axle shaft (the diagram is from the parts book and I think it's the heavy duty type).
Image
A 5 1/2"
B 5 3/4"
C 4 5/8"
D 3 29/32"
E 3 31/32"
F 3 3/4"

G 3/4"
H 3/8"
I 1/2"
J 3/8"
K 9/16"
L 9/16"
If anyone has a better chance to get good measurements modify whatever you need to in the post, but do say what type of shaft it is so we can then see what's different between the two types.
As for part numbers both use the same seal (E27N-4245A), but the std. shaft, seal housing and felt (E27N-4235D, E27N-1183 and E27N-1180) are different from the heavy duty parts (E1ADKN-4235, E1ADKN-1183 and E1ADKN-1180). Ford sold the seal and housing separately, so there's no reason for not reusing the original housing if undamaged. The shafts became E27N-4235E and E1ADDN-4235 later on.
Sandy
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EdWaters
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by EdWaters »

Thank you very much for going to the trouble measuring everything, I will check mine when I’m back with the tractor. Would any year fordson major drive shafts fit? I know the large bull gears are a very slightly different diameter in the later ones but the splines are the same ?

Billy26F5
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Re: Halfshaft identification and seal help

Post by Billy26F5 »

Any year shafts will fit, but the hevy duty ones need a different seal housing which isn't sold by aftermarket suppliers, the seal itself is the same.
Sandy
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