The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Very good point Shepp, although it's far more likely to be the front crank seal.
Sandy

If you find it is the crank seal causing the leak, before removing the old seal check the pulley for wear. If there is a groove worn on the pulley form the old seal, note the depth of the old seal in the timing cover and when you install the new one set it at a slightly different depth so it contacts the pully in a different place to avoid the seal lip sitting in the worn groove

When we did the rings and liners we also cleaned out the sump and replaced the gasket. I'm pretty sure we did the cork seal, so it probably is the timing cover.

If it still leaks after, we'll be taking the front apart again!

C

John b wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:06 am

If you find it is the crank seal causing the leak, before removing the old seal check the pulley for wear. If there is a groove worn on the pulley form the old seal, note the depth of the old seal in the timing cover and when you install the new one set it at a slightly different depth so it contacts the pully in a different place to avoid the seal lip sitting in the worn groove

Thanks; that's very good and helpful advice. Once we get in there I'll take a look.

If it were the cork seal you only need to lower the sump to replace it. Very good point John, Super Billy had a grove and it got filled in.
Sandy

I've now completed the clean-up: that was a job and a half; the oily / greasy mess in the bell housing was awful. Thick, sticky stuff that is a nightmare to get off, on everything.

I've now removed the shaft cover at the back of the housing behind the clutch fork and this is where I'd like some advice.

I suspect this seal is leaking (hence the mess everywhere), so I'm going to replace it.

But I cannot get the thing out. Any tips? I've tried prying it up, a screwdriver through the hole in the casting from the other side, a puller etc etc. It doesn't want to move.

The other question I have is regarding the play on the output and PTO shaft. This seems to move about a bit. I've not withdrawn it yet (I can pull it out towards the front of the tractor and it moves easily, but I've not move it more than an inch or two yet, in case I mess something up. But what should the amount of movement on that shaft be? Should it have play and wobble slightly, or does that mean that the big bearing I can see mounted on it is toast and needs to come off?

I would remove the PTO input shaft and replace the seal in it and you can check the bearing while you're doing this, the seal in the housing I would also change and I wouldn't worry about destroying the old seal in the process. Input shafts are never totally free from play when the engine isn't there with the pilot bearing supporting them. I don't think the bearing is in trouble, but you'll need to check that when you get to it.
Sandy

Thanks; I've got the seal in the retainer out. I drove the screwdriver through it to deform it away from the side of the housing enough to get the screwdriver behind it and then bend it in, loosening it enough to prise it out.

So, now my next question.

Am I okay just to pull out that transmission and PTO shaft? I didn't want to in case something drops off the end inside and makes me two weeks' work to reassemble.

Will it come out as a unit with nothing at risk of falling away inside the gearbox?

And is reassembly easy: just a case of rotating the shaft as I insert it to align splines or teeth?

Thanks for the advice.

I would pull out the PTO shaft but leave the main one in place, it will come with the large ball bearing and will go in smoothly once the teeth are aligned and make sure it's nice and oily between the two shafts. If you do remove the main shaft there's a roller bearing in it that might fall apart if it's worn, but it's not a bearing that's likely to be in bad condition.
Sandy

So pull the outer splined shaft out, but leave the smaller inner (main transmission shaft)?

Is the oil seal inside the outer PTO shaft?

You're right on both things, the seal is quite wee, but definitely worth dealing with.
Sandy

I had some time to work on this more over the weekend.

I have pulled the outer (PTO) splined shaft out of the gearbox input housing; as anticipated, the main supporting bearing has come with it. I left the main driveshaft in situ; I am now looking straight into the gearbox.

The bearing on the PTO shaft actually looks okay; it spins nicely, with no noises and not much play to speak of, so your instincts were right, Sandy.

I can see what I think is the seal inside the shaft; it seems to be just a small round affair about 10mm wide and about 4mm thick. Is that the one? It looks a bit old and flattened, so almost certainly wants replacing.

But how on Earth do I get that out from inside the PTO shaft? And how do I replace it correctly? The service manual talks about using special tools and the main driveshaft itself to press the new one into place.

Meanwhile, does anyone know what that inner seal, between the main driveshaft and the PTO driveshaft on the gearbox input, is actually called?

I will need to buy a replacement, but I can't find what it's called so I don't know what to search out!

I've now had a closer look at this part, now I've cleaned it all up, and I think it might be the old type seal, unless I'm looking at the wrong thing?

It's a sequence of brass rings, at the front end (closest to the splines) of which is a grey - what feels like a hard metal ?steel - grey insert. I thought this was the rubber seal originally, but it's more like metal. Is this the original type that was subsequently substituted by the rubber seal in later builds?

Should I just leave it?

You have found the seal, part no. E1ADDN-7052A. I've seen the bit in the manual, you'll need something to pull it out with (don't disturb the bush inside behind the seal), and as for refitting you'll be fine as long as you fit it carefully and gently over the main input shaft splines. It would be better to have the fitting sleeve but it's not something worth looking around for for ages and if you were to find one it would probably be very expensive anyway. It's definitely worth replacing that seal now you've got this far.
Sandy

TY - how do I get it out?!

Try making a hook with a relitively thin piece of metal and use it to pull out the seal carefully to avoid damage to the seating. Don't worry about damaging the old seal.
Sandy

I'm still confused by this assembly; this cannot be a seal, surely? The grey-coloured structure at the end sits less proud than the brass-coloured bit; it's also hard, not rubbery. It cannot be working as a seal. Or am I looking at totally the wrong thing?



This is the clutch end of the PTO to gearbox input shaft, looking down the shaft towards the gearbox; the main driveshaft off the clutch runs through the middle of here. Going by the workshop diagram (which is crap at best) there should be a seal here at the end of this housing.

Help!

The brass is the bush which appears to be ok. The seal is just ahead of it and it seems to be of the kind with a metal case, and if it's hard it definitely needs replacing, it's also pretty worn as it should indeed have a slightly smaller I/D than the bush.
Sandy

TY - that's going to be a total mother to get out.

I wouldn't expect it to be very tight, and as soon as it gets out on one side it should come easily.
Sandy

Fair enough. Thinking ahead, when I need to get the new seal over the splines on the driveshaft, any idea how I can prevent the new seal getting massacred?

Ford had that sleeve, but If you fit it very carefully and delicately it should be ok if the splines aren't badly worn. wrapping something round them might do the job but be sure you can get that off later.
Sandy

Thinking aloud... maybe if I make a thin shroud that fits inside the seal and over the splines; then I slide the seal off the shroud once it's in situ...

Sounds good.
Sandy