Grey oil on the dipstick

[Soukup]

Hello Together,

I had to move the tractor from the shed early in the spring because of roof replacement, since then it was sitting out under a tarp. Yesterday I checked the oil level in the engine after a short ride and i saw this:




It searched a little and it seems that coolant got into the engine oil? What would you recomend to do other than replace the oil and drain the coolant when not using the tractor?

Thanks for every advice!

[Jm-baker]

I had a milky white dipstick when the tractor sat around for a long time without use and only started occasionally.

Drained the oil (well) and changed it, filter etc.

Not returned since.

[Billy26F5]

The milky effect is water, but I see no coolant colour in there, so it might well just be water from outside has got in, if so inspect all seals (Billy was out in the open long before 2005 and he never got milky engine oil as far as I can and have seen) to avoid any allowing water in. If after that there is still milky effect and perhaps coolant colour in the mix check for the head gasket, liner o-rings and for cracks. Hopefully not any of the last two as that's a big job to fix. In all cases replace the oil, refilling with some intermediate stage (approximately 120-170 hours out of the 200 you would normally use it for to avoid throwing away new stuff, although it will be a better result with new oil) non watery oil for a flush of a few minutes running only (but only use the right kind of oil and never any that is from running-in or has other nasy stuff in it) before draining that out and filling with new. The reason I suggest a flush is that water is about the worst thing you can have in engine oil apart from dirt. In both stages allow at least overnight for draining. Running-in dirt is not desirable at any time, hence low hours on oil in rebuilt or new engines early stages.
Sandy

[Soukup]

Thank you both for hints,

so it might well just be water from outside has got in, if so inspect all seals

Tractor was sitting under a tarp all the time, so I hope no water can get into it easily. But what seals you mean specifically?

I will probably put new oil and filter in and after the shed is done I will inspect the head gasket. (Not really looking forward to it )

[Billy26F5]

I mean all seals between inside and outside the engine, but also some bolts that are in through holes. Before removing the head try retorquing the head, it could just be a loose bolt, if you do do this remember to reset the tappet clearances afterwards when hot.
Sandy

[Emiel]

Traditionally a fordson major leaks on the bottom of the liners and have leaking o rings. Also eaten away block material isn’t uncommon in this area.

I hope you’re lucky,…..

[shepp]

Had you been using good quality antifreeze in the cooling system and changing it every 2 to 3 years?? Anti freeze also contains corrosion inhibitors to prevent or reduce internal corrosion of the engine. How much coolant would you estimate had disappeared from the cooling system?? To produce the amount of emulsification seen with the oil would take more than a pint or two of water/coolant. You may be lucky and ultimately find that water had entered the engine via the exhaust system or air cleaner/inlet system, more likely a cylinder liner has pin holed or corroded on the groove for the liner sealing rings, the liner seal grooves in the block could also have corroded which is much more problematical as emiel says.

[Soukup]

The whole story is as follows, I bought the tractor in 9/21 as a hobby project/firewood collecting helper. The tractor was full of water only with the hint that in winter they drain the water and put it in only when they want to use the tractor.

I changed the oil (very dark and rough - no water in it) And started using antifreeze FRIDEX® STABIL which meets the VW TL 774 B standart (should be good on old machines, very often used in our very common Zetors). During the summer when I was collecting the firewood I noticed that the level of coolant dropped a little, but I thought that it is because of the leaking tap on the side of the block that was slightly dripping every minute or so. I checked the oil every now and then and I saw no emulsification in it. But after winter when the tractor stood in the shed and was started ocassionally just to keep the parts moving, I noticed the grey oil.

The coolant drop was as you said shepp about 1 litre.

[Billy26F5]

This definitely points to corrosion, as using just water is very bad and will cause the liner o-rings to fail. Having said that try retorquing the head first, just in case you're lucky.
Sandy

[shepp]

If you were putting about a litre of coolant in every time you topped up that is significant. If a litre in total then not as significant and the explanation of the loss could indeed be from the dripping tap. All you can do is drain and flush the engine oil and refill with new oil and filter and see how it goes with the tractor in dry storage. It's not so much the liner "O" rings that fail, unless the engine has been seriously overheated and "cooked" the liner seals are pretty durable. What happens more often is that if anti freeze is not used the liners develop pin holes in the wall and coolant drops into the sump. The joint between the seals and the liner grooves and block grooves is very tight so corrosion does not usually strike there where surfaces are in contact, but it does strike either side of the mating surface if anti freeze with corrosion inhibitors is not used.

[Billy26F5]

When I say liner o-rings I don't tend to be as precise as that, once the coolant side of the grove is bad the grove itself will get bad pretty quickly, and fixing that can be a big job. As we often say on the forum always use correct ethylene glycol coolant with inorganic corrosion inhibitor and never allow the corrosion inhibitor to loose efficiency by replacing it every 2 years. Doing that there should be no trouble.
Sandy

[Soukup]

A little update on this topic. Yesterday I drained the oil, it is still dripping a little so I guess I'll leave it some more time to get it as clean as possible. I removed the rocker cover to see whether the oil is getting all the way up (clearly visible since it is grey ) I noticed some drops on the leakoff pipe from the injectors. Fluid very thin clearly diesel. Is there a way to tell if the oil is contaminated with diesel instead of coolant?

Maybe it is combination of both

Is there some way to tell the composition of the drained oil?

[Billy26F5]

Diesel is much more difficult to tell (no colour change), see if it smells of diesel as that's the easiest way to find out. Check the leak off line bolts and solderings, that's where a leak can be expected. There's a good chance the coolant will have been circulated right to the top and the emulsion will feel different from normal oil.
Sandy

[shepp]

Contamination by diesel merely thins the oil down and does not cause any emulsification. A high oil level on the dipstick, thin oil and a rough running engine is a sign of a bad injector(s), I have a lovely original 35X I bought about 8 years ago, it was running really off and the owners thought it needed a major overhaul, but it did not breath and I noticed the high and thin oil level. Bought it for the right money, got it home and a set of new injector nozzles - bingo, runs like a sewing machine! Your issue is definitely water contamination whether from the cooling system or from water from outside that has got in somehow.

[Soukup]

Hello Together,

I replaced the head gasket, but it didnt help at all, oil is again milky and coolant dropped. So the tractor is currently in the near repair shop for examination.

In the mean time I would like to search for the correct repait kit, if there will be need for one.. I found the number on the block of the engine - 1501216. So it should be Power Major Mark III from the March of 1959.

I found this kit: https://tracteurbits.com/en/motor-parts ... major.html

Is there a way of telling whether it is correct set?

Thank you in advance for your advices.

[Billy26F5]

Theoretically yes, but beware of wrong parts. Before you do anything else drop the sump and do a coolant pressure test, that should tell you where you're leaking. Once you've found where the leak is take that apart and check the parts before ordering anything. only then will you know what you need. I would probably say you'll need liners pistons and rings plus gaskets and seals (make sure the liner o-rings are correct) but that's on the assumption that a liner is damaged so do make sure you check before ordering anything. Plenty of pics are handy too, if your engine was undisturbed you might have still have had a steel head gasket, a very rare item that is definitely worthy of pics. Your original liners will probably be flat, with low crown pistons but all of this is just for interest as many were replaced early on as the steel gasket was not great. If that happened you could have a whole load of different parts in there, so you might need to change more than needed to keep it all balanced. Pics will confirm what you need, once you've found the leak.
Sandy

[fenhayman]

As an alternative to a costly strip down try a good quality radiator sealant. Millers good in the uk. Flush the system thoroughly and add product into top of block having removed thermostat. Carefully follow instruction on product. Used it five years ago on a Super Major with grey oil. Problem solved. I know it's not proper engineering but worth a try for under 20 pounds. Tin hat on!

[Billy26F5]

I think there can be issues with that if this engine has been drained regularly, as flushing won't shift the vast amount of serious rust that will be in there, I would prefer to see what state parts are in and where the leak is as if a liner has cracked it needs to be replaced anyway. If such draining hadn't been particularly known I might have gone for that too, but I feel this is going to need a bigger repair. Never run the engine without the thermostat, it will cause more harm than good (only possible exception is if there are working radiator shutters but those were gone two years before your tractor was made, and it doesn't quite work correctly anyway).
Sandy

[Soukup]

Yes, our next step is definitelly to drop the sump a check where the leak is coming from.

The draining of water was allways very messy, the water was full of black-brownish stuff so I suppose the engine was full of rust and something else. Maybe the previous owner has this problem as well and used some sealant which then formed this sluggish mess? I dont know..

But in the next weeks I will certainly find out the real state.

[Soukup]

Hello Together,

so the latest news are that the liners are pitted.. I have no photo, but I know it is a single o-ring and have a measurement of the flange height 11mm.

Any tips what should we measure to ensure the correct parts?

Do you think that this set would be suitable then? https://tracteurbits.com/en/motor-parts ... major.html

Thank you folks!

[Billy26F5]

The kit looks ok. Glad you've found what's wrong, liner issues are the common cause of this issue. The measurements you want to check are bore, wall thickness (I'm giving you the OD of the liner) and spigot diameter (if you have spigots on these, the original ones wouldn't have as those appeared from 1518654 and the new parts will be as used from 1565580, liners from in between have a larger spigot and can only be used with the contemporary head gasket E1ADDN-6051C) should be as follows:
Bore 3.937"
Liner OD 4 9/32"
Spigot OD 4.22"
As for the o-ring you need it to have an ID of 4.208" and be 0.188" thick (I think, haven't found that specified, I'll measure ours, later ones unfortunately, and let you know, you should measure the o-ring grooves in the block, hopefully not finding difficulty but that depends on how the corrosion has happened and where). If you have flat liners and original pistons you probably want to fit the new pistons as pistons E1ADDN-6110E and E1ADDN-6110F (0.0025"o/s OD of E1ADDN-6110E) as originally fitted are 0.010" lower than E1ADDN-6110L and E1ADDN-6110M (0.0025"o/s OD of E1ADDN-6110L) which were fitted from 1518654 and are the only ones available (not o/s) as well as Mk1 service pistons E1ADDN-6110J (the o/s E1ADDN-6110K is not available). Using lower pistons will lower the compression ratio with asociated issues.
Sandy