The Fordson Tractor Pages Forum

Gents,
I have to press my 59 Power Major into service for raking hay.
(JD hydraulic pump went kaput within ten minutes of starting raking.)

Can you tell me if I need to pin the lift arms lever in the up position to use the auxilliary control for the lift on the rake?
Its a one way valve on this vee rake.

I see there is a fine hole where a cotter pin could be inserted to hold the hyd. arms lift lever in the constant flow position .
As it is at present, I have to raise the lift arms all the way, and wile holding this lever up, use the add on hyd control to raise the rake.

This might come over as pure nonsense to you, but hope you can understand what I mean, and thought I'd ask!

Thanks in advance for any help.

PS, I Do have a Super Major, but it is loaned out and not got it back yet. (Loaned out for winter feeding!)
That one I can figure better as the hydraulics are different.

All the best,
Richard.

If the rake is single acting ie simply lift or lower, I'd suggest connect the lift pipe from the rake ram straight to the tipper connector on the tractor. It will still lift the arms first but there will be only one lever to deal with. Not ideal but should get you raking.

Do you have one or two hydraulic levers?

Good morning Emiel,
I have one lever, and no tipper hydraulic, so plugged the inlet hose into that plug under the seat close to the lift arm casting. The outlet side is connected into the filler plug behind the lift arms.

Thank you both for your replies!

Rich.

Not too sure where you mean, are you in the 1/2" BSP connection on the LH side of the valve chest? If so you'll need to keep the lever pulled up, although as Rob says it would be simpler to have the whole setup controlled by the main lever (assuming it's a single acting ram). If you're not connected to that location I suggest you post a pic so we can see what you have, but be careful as there are some places that don't have any control from the unloading valve.
Sandy

Hi, if I understood correctly you’ve plugged in directly to the main feex from the pump.

(To put it in 21st century lingo; you’ve created a power beyond port.) I think if your implement is a closed Center machine with its own control box your lift will work sort of independently from the implement.

Hello Richard. I have a Power Major with a log splitter permanantly attached to the front end. The oil feed to the splitter is plumbed from the plug under the RH side of the seat the same as yours and returns through a fitting in place of the back end filler cap. I lift the tractor hydraulic lever up and stick a nail or R clip through the hole in the quadrant to give constant pumping. After 10 years there have been no problems with this setup and it stops the lift arms going up and down in time with the splitter.

The problem with doing that is that you can make the pump work at excessive pressure. You'll get the same operation from the output on the valve chest and there you won't risk ruining the pump.
Sandy

Emiel wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:26 pm

Hi, if I understood correctly you’ve plugged in directly to the main feex from the pump.

(To put it in 21st century lingo; you’ve created a power beyond port.) I think if your implement is a closed Center machine with its own control box your lift will work sort of independently from the implement.

I forgot the fact there is no pressure unless the lift valve is operated. I would use the trailer port instead of this one.

Apologies for slow reply!
Been raking and baling.
Dave's Rusty Parts has it figured as the way this works at present.
Emiel,
I see no port that could be used on the valve chest. A super has such a port, but can't see where I could plug in on this Power Major.

Again, I have no trailer port as far as I know.
Can someone link me to a picture of what this looks like?

Thanks one and all!
It Is working OK, but the pressure does seem high.
At present, I only have to use hydraulics to lift the rake, then I kick the PTO out of gear for dropping and working in the field. (Vee rake)

I will take pictures of the set0-up and post them ASAP.

Best regards,
Richard.

Here's Billy's tipping pipe.

I wouldn't recomment having the PTO disengaged when using the hydraulics, only when you need to for PTO work.
Sandy

Sandy,
Thank you for the picture. I see this outlet now!
Can you tell me how it works, as in, do the arms have to be raised all the way and the lever pinned, for this outlet to work?

Not at all sure what you mean about the PTO disengaged when using hydraulics.
I was meaning when hydraulics not in use, I just knock the PTO out as it's pumping for nothing .

Thanks again,
Richard.

Hi,

The tipping pipe connection is in series with the lift cylinder. That means that the lift raises and the the implement or the other way round. Depending on what requires the least pressure. Ideally the lift is tied down someway. Otherwise things end up uncontrollably I’ve learned with front end loader connected to that pipe.

Kicking pto out of gear seams a safe way of working to me. Do you have a rake which is powered under its own motion?

Good morning and thank you for your time, Emiel.

Yes, the rake is a ten wheel Vee rake, ground driven.
Hydraulics are only required to raise both wings for transport.

Would you say that connecting the input to the valve chest in this manner is better than the connection I am currently using, under the lift arms on the right hand side of the tractor?

Thank you again and all the best,
Richard.

RH wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:01 pm

Good morning and thank you for your time, Emiel.

Yes, the rake is a ten wheel Vee rake, ground driven.
Hydraulics are only required to raise both wings for transport.

Would you say that connecting the input to the valve chest in this manner is better than the connection I am currently using, under the lift arms on the right hand side of the tractor?

Thank you again and all the best,
Richard.

Do you have a raised pto, or do you disconnect the pto shaft when using the hydraulics?

The valve chest connection will ensure the unloading valve does it's job, and as far as controlling the hydraulics the same applies to both places i.e. hold the lever fully up on the quadrant for lifting.
Sandy

Sandy,

Thank you for the clarification!

Best Richard.

Mathias,
Am a bit foxed by your question my friend.
The PTO is not connected to anything when raking. The rake is a simple Vee rake and the times are turned by contact with the ground. No power to them at all, and hydraulics only used to raise the rake wheels for transport.

All the best,
R.

Think of a double acrobat rake arranged in a v configuration.

RH wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:13 pm

Mathias,
Am a bit foxed by your question my friend.
The PTO is not connected to anything when raking. The rake is a simple Vee rake and the times are turned by contact with the ground. No power to them at all, and hydraulics only used to raise the rake wheels for transport.

Hair Bear wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:02 pm

Think of a double acrobat rake arranged in a v configuration.

ah, the vicon acrobat, then you obvious don't need the pto.

mathias1 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:16 pm

RH wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 3:13 pm

Mathias,
Am a bit foxed by your question my friend.
The PTO is not connected to anything when raking. The rake is a simple Vee rake and the times are turned by contact with the ground. No power to them at all, and hydraulics only used to raise the rake wheels for transport.

Hair Bear wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:02 pm

Think of a double acrobat rake arranged in a v configuration.

ah, the vicon acrobat, then you obvious don't need the pto.

My favorite toy when haymaking - right up to when the tines need changing. Although the broken tines make excellent long screwdrivers!

Baling often is great fun with the windrows from these rakes.

Baling following rowing up with an Acrobat or a Bamfords gearless rake used to be a nightmare with the crop effectively knotted up like a rope and overfeeding the baler!
With regard to the question over the hydraulics, the Ferguson 20 tractor has problems when providing an external hydraulic oil supply. When a trailer is used with the Ferguson pickup hitch the T bar stops the rear links rising to the pump cut off point so pressure is available to the tipping pipe when the lift lever is raised. The same applies when using a Ferguson loader, you fit the T bar for this purpose. Other loader manufacturers would supply a pair of heavy reinforced stay bars that were used with the 9 hole flat drawbar and were secured to the two section long pin that ran through the rear axle casing, these prevented the lift arms from rising so that oil under pressure was available to the loader via the top cover take off point when the lift lever was raised. A similar arrangement could be made up for the Major hydraulics when an external oil supply is needed to be controlled by the standard lift lever.

It sounds like a good idea, but I seem to remember someone else trying it and breaking parts because of the forces involved. But if you think you can avoid it then definitely try it. The Fergie shows why depth control type hydraulics need an extra valve for tipping, as used on the Dexta and Super Major. If you really wanted separate controls you could always try to find the extra valve chest, but that's a very expensive way of doing it (as these are very rare).
Sandy

Thank you all for the replies and ideas.
Re the vee rake, its a real joy to use as the swath is even in thickness and the full width of the baler pickup.
This model seems easy on tines.
Not broken any yet this year but only raked 80 acres up to now.

I tried the inlet side plumbed into the valve chest, but the arms always dropped as soon as the lever was released, and the pressure seemed as high as when I used the port under the seat at the right side, so went back to that.
I did find that Remembering to plug the outlet Not in use is a good idea! I dumped a good bit of oil and wondered why the lift wasn't working before I remembered I hadn't replaced the plug!

What is a raised PTO going for these days?
If I put one on, (I know where there is one in working order) I could also use the Kuhn rotary rake, but as it is, the old Fordson wants to shake its guts out.

Thanks again for all joining in and helping sort this out.

Richard.

I think they're pretty expensive now, Australia as far as I know has most of them, but I don't think that would be the best option. The arms will drop if the return is in that line, as you shouldn't need a return with that arrangement (stressing it's only for single acting rams, for double acting rams you do need a return, but you will also need to put something in that return to stop the arms coming down or put something in to hold them up).
Sandy