FMD Starter problem.

[RH]

Gents,
Firstly thank you for all your tie and help with the external hydraulics on the Power Major.
Now if I may, another question;

My Power major starts really well when cold, but if it's been running , the starter just "wheezes" and won't turn over, Or, barely turns over a half turn in a sluggish manner, just like battery is flat.
When cool again, it starts up fine!

What's up?

[Billy26F5]

Start by checking all connections are clean and tight, after that if it still does that you might want to check other things (try a different battery if you can).
Sandy

[mathias1]

check mass connection also, I found mine loose today.

[RH]

I put on another good battery and its just same, Sandy.

Mathias,
Not sure what Mass connection is, but will check them all and see.
V good clean connection onto starter I know for sure.

Thanks you both, will keep you posted!

best,
Richard.

[Hair Bear]

I think I'd use a separate battery with jump leads straight to the starter. If that works ok it's a connection issue, if it's still the same them suspect the starter.

[Billy26F5]

Good point Rob, Mathias is referring to the earth lead conection, another good point. Check the solenoid connections too.
Sandy

[RH]

Thanks for the ideas, It just struck me as odd if connections would be worse when warm than cold.
Will get a look tomorrow and report back!

Thanks again to all!

Rich.

[Old Hywel]

Sounds like the starter motor clutch is slipping. Others may have suggestions on how to cure it?

[Billy26F5]

If it is the clutch you'll need to add a shim, there are three sizes: 0.004" (E87-CQ-9, Lucas 291379), 0.005" (E86-CQ-9, Lucas 291378), and 0.006" (E85-CQ-9, Lucas 291374).
Here's the manual: http://www.fordson.se/8_9_Broms_sl%E4p_ ... 01-010.pdf.
I would still try to get all connections good first as it's easier.
Sandy

[RH]

Boy, I Hope its a wiring connection problem Sandy!
I will try the jump leads to a good battery. that sounds a very good idea.

If clutch Was slipping, what would be the symptoms?
The "wheeze" only lasts a second or two, no sound of anything spinning in starter.

In all these years, I have never had the starter apart and looking at your attachment I'd like to keep it that way!
First tractor I ever "drove" was a Fordson Major, sitting on my dads knee in 1959. I was 5 at the time.
This back on the farm near Ormesby in the North Riding of Yorkshire.
In the early 80's we rebuilt that engine, but the old lass got left in England when we came to Canada in '84.
I wound up here with three of them again, (plus more modern ones!)
Two Supers and one Power.
On's a work in progress.
Had to re-bearing and re-ring engine, but Starters have always worked. Bits arrive here fast from Agriline in the UK.
Will keep you posted.

Thanks you and all the best,
Rich.

[Emiel]

Hi,

Slipping clutch indicates itself by a spinning starter and a hardly or not turning engine. I had this on our diesel major. Repair was easy. Taking starter apart, taking clutch apart and clean the disks. In my case they were greasy from a leaking crank shaft seal. Starting improved a lot.

With a bit of google skills you can find a Lucas manual for assistance, but I managed without. Just mark where the starter switch is and put it back in the right position. That’s important somehow.

[Billy26F5]

The Ford manual has this well explained, here's the rest of the starter section: http://www.fordson.se/7_El_Verkstadsmanual_191-224.pdf
After fixing the clutch the clearance for the switch will need resetting, but that's pretty easy. The switch if not far back enough will allow the starter to turn before the pinion is in mesh, with these consequences.

Billy's whole pinion and clutch assy. was replaced at this point.
Having said all this I still think it's a bad connection; while checking this see if the brushes are ok as if not the commutator will end up like this:

and this needed a lathe to fix it.
Sandy

[RH]

Good information Gents!
I have fixed a good few starters, its just that I have not had one apart with the clutch plates in there!
I suppose when you get at it it will be straightforward enough if needs be.

Will check connections first, but wound up going to town for circlips for a TEA -20 PTO, but they didn't have them, so will be putting it back together with those old miserable ones!
Then went to a scrap yard and picked up a raised PTO in lovely condition. everything looks about like new.
Had to pull it from a Power Major, after I drained oil,(clean as a pin!) so no rust anywhere.
Its going on the '62 Super.
I took a standard PTO in V good condition and put in the Power Major, so its all closed up again.

all the best,
Rich.

[Billy26F5]

Sounds like you were very lucky with that raised PTO, they're normally very expensive nowadays. Always so frustrating to go all the way to get something and have to come back having not got that, but at least you got something else.
Sandy

[RH]

Good morning Sandy,
Yes, was expecting NAPA to have a variation of circlips.
Pleased about the raised PTO as it wont shake the guts out the Kuhn rotary rake when I get it fitted.
Nice on slasher too, no nasty stuff happening when picking it up off the ground anymore. And rotovator!

That Super has milk in the rear end, so needs draining and flushing and filter mucking out anyway, so an ideal time to fit it.
Of course, gearbox running on milk as well and will be drained.

Nice weather here today but expecting thunder showers later.
Late with hay, but it's been too spotty to get excited about cutting. Only put up 80 acres. 160 yet to cut!

Best,
R.

[Billy26F5]

All sounds very good, I wish we could have a bit of rain as it's been bone dry for over two years here. The raised PTO is very handy (I don't think I would have paid that much, but I've seen lots of far more expensive ones), and if you're draining oil anyway it's an even better moment to fit it. I would recommend you clean out the gearbox and axle a bit before putting in the new stuff, but only if you can ensure you're not going to thin the oil as a result. The rear axle has more of a tendancy to become milky when rained on as the bolts are in through holes, allowing quite a lot of water in.
Sandy

[RH]

Yes, Sandy, I will flush it a bit with diesel in a garden sprayer but make sure to mop it out!

Re cost of raised PTO, are you referring to what I wrote in the PM to you?
Did I typo?... it was Cheap....

Are you in Oz?
Have mates up near Gympie, and a best pal who died, down in Surrey Hills area,.

[Billy26F5]

I was referring to the PM, but bare in mind I find anything expensive nowadays. I'm nowhere near Oz, but I remember Brian comenting on them having lots of raised PTO's (when he was there), when they're pretty rare elsewhere. I've yet to see one near us, as far as I know Ebro never offerred one, which makes the likelyhood even lower. But you never know as there are some curious exceptions to what you expect everywhere.
Sandy

[RH]

Morning Sandy,
I was just guessing at your location because of the two years dry!
I expect other places besides Oz get like that!
All I know about this raised PTO is that it is a Fordson job.
has the casting code.
Hope to get that tractor home in next day or two , get it flushed and fit this .

All the best,
R.