590E engines

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:53 am

Dear all,
I purchased 4 month ago a fordson major with a 6 cylinder engine ( serial number C510F69869). The bad new is that this engine is stuck!!
Yesterday, I've got a second engine, (S336282), coming from a Clayson combine. This one is not stuck. The injection pumps are different: pneumatic governor for the first and mechanic for the second.
Could someone tell me what size of battery is needed to start this engine? The battery should fit in the fordson major battery box.
Thanks.
Best regards.
Constant

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:04 am

I will start easy with any normal battery if everything is working properly. I tryed once with an old 12V 45Ah and it started, but for normal use a 110 Ah is good. On my Roadless I have 2*110 Ah but we have sometimes cold weather up here. In my boat I have 4* 75 Ah but they are not all because of the engine.

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:25 am

Thank you Grani for this very prompt reply. The engine is on a frame coming from the combine. I will probably try to start it this afternoon. There is no water in oil and it was supposed to run last year.
Best regards,
Constant

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:30 am

Hello Constant,

We can start our Clayson M103 without trouble with a 55A car battery.

Just put in the engine.

What type of combine is your engine from, and are there any parts left over?

Best regards

Emiel

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:40 am

Hi Emiel,
I bought this engine from a New Holland dealer, close to the French border (Beaumont). The combine has been dismantled last summer and sell in pieces as the iron was at a quite high quote at this time. Nothing else was available. Even the air filter was missing.
Have a nice day,
Constant

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:08 pm

Constant wrote:I will probably try to start it this afternoon.

Do not start it wihout filling it with water, not even for a short time, it will damage the sleeve seals.

Good luck.

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:22 pm

Thanks for the advice Grani.
I bought a 125 Ah battery this afternoon and she fired up at the first crank. I do not understand the stop / throttle system on this ex-combine engine. They are two levers behind the rear of the pump???
Have a nice evening.

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:30 pm

Constant wrote:I do not understand the stop / throttle system on this ex-combine engine. They are two levers behind the rear of the pump???
Have a nice evening.

Is the pump like this
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... ge0006.jpg
Or like this
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... 003-11.jpg

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:43 am

Grani, the pump is a little bit different. I'll try to post a picture (first attempt!!)
[img]http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... x600-1.jpg
[/img]
Maybe a better view of the rear of the pump, where the levers are
[img]http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... 00x600.jpg
[/img]
And finally a view of the receiver
[img]http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... 00x600.jpg
[/img]
Hope it works...
Best regards,
Constant

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:51 am

Grani, the pump is a little bit different. I'll try to post a picture (first attempt!!)
Well, second try..

Maybe a better view of the rear of the pump, where the levers are

And finally a view of the receiver

Hope it works...
Best regards,
Constant

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:55 am

Sorry for being so stupid... Don't understand where the problem is.

http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... x600-1.jpg

Maybe a better view of the rear of the pump, where the levers are

http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... 00x600.jpg

And finally a view of the receiver

http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... 00x600.jpg

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:25 am

Top lever is the fuel shut off. Bottom is the throttle. Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:57 pm

Dandy Dave wrote:Top lever is the fuel shut off. Bottom is the throttle. Dandy Dave!

Are you shure or is this your guess?
It seems to me that the throttle lever is cut off and the idle adjust is adjusted to some higher rews?? Is it possible? Is something missing in the front end?

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:09 pm

The one I have has the stoplever and coldstart button in the front end and the throttle lever at rear.

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:44 pm

Grani,
this rear view of your pump looks exactly like mine. But, have a look at this picture and you will see that the stop and cold start button is missing.
http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... 00x600.jpg
So, how to stop this engine??

Best regards,
Constant

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:42 pm

Grani wrote:
Dandy Dave wrote:Top lever is the fuel shut off. Bottom is the throttle. Dandy Dave!
Are you shure or is this your guess?
It seems to me that the throttle lever is cut off and the idle adjust is adjusted to some higher rews?? Is it possible? Is something missing in the front end?

This was just an educated guess. With the new photos, I can see that things are not as they seemed. The two levers are for the governor. It also appears as though your throttle rod shaft is broken off on the outside. I wonder if the fuel shut off and excessive fuel button will interchange off of a 4 cylinder simms pump?

Not Simms in paticular, but some pumps that I have worked on in the past have only had one lever. To shut it off you had to push/ pull those past the idle position like on a 1940's, and 1950's ..60's. Caterpillar, Engines. It would be good to take photos to an injection pump shop and see if you can find an old timer that has worked on these pumps to sort it out for you. Just offering ideas. Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:21 pm

The stoplewer from a pump with pneumatic governor looks the same and vill propobly fit, but it vill be on the opposite side. You have to check that it push the governor rod to stop and not wide open. That is posible by losening the injector pipes and look when the fuel is comming and when it don´t. I have no 4 cyl parts but i think this is the same on both 4 and 6 cyl pumps. Here is a picture of parts from a GP pump. Borrow it from your other engines pump. The throttle lever is an other problem you have to deal with. As the throttle axle is broken you have to connect the pedal linkage to the back side upper lever somehow.

And adjust the idle lower.

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:22 pm

Dear DD and Grani,
I now understand the problems very well: the pump is exactly the same as Grani's in the last picture, but:
- the stop/cold start button is missing
- the the throttle lever axle is broken
I do have a stop/cold start system on an old 4 cylinder pump. I'll try a swap if it is possible. The broken axle will be more difficult to deal with.
The solution could be to swap the injection pump from one engine to the other. Would that be possible???
Many thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Constant

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:54 am

Does your 4 cyl pump have a pneumatic or mecanical governor? If it has a mecanical then you can take the throttle axle as well.
Yes you can switch the pumps but you have to switch the inletmanifolds aswell. I would try to fix the axle if I where you.

Jos Cuypers · Post by **Jos Cuypers** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:00 pm

Now that I see Constant .... aijaijai...Torquewrench

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:32 pm

If you have a machine shop in your area, I would think that they could help you either repair, or make a new throttle shaft for the pump. To bad you are not close to me or we would have had it done already. I have several South Bend lathes, A 13" X 6' and a 16" X 12' and a Bridgport 9" X 42" Mill. Better to repair what you have, than to start swapping pumps off of a good running motor and only have to put it back again. Dandy Dave!

Constant · Post by **Constant** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:50 pm

Many thanks for your advices. I will try to repair this axle, or get another one (maybe from Peter Slater referenced in the Fordson links). But I need time to do it and I'm very busy at work at the moment. I'm not an expert in mechanics.
Jos, glad to see you're still there. I hope to meet you in may.
Best regards,
Constant