Valuation of this particular Dexta vigneron

[gimiq]

Hello all, Hope you are all well

spring has arrived the sun is out in full force in the charente, its time to dust off the Dexta and prep it for the topping season.

As some of you know I own the 1964 vigneron, have given mine an oil and filter change finally and flushed the radiator etc. Hydraulic oils to be looked at next. I have several questions regarding mine around the non existent oil sump plate, and temperature gauge and probe (thermostat possibly sticking open). Which I will make specific posts in due course.

But, to get to the point of this post. Another vigneron has come up on facebook. The photos and video of which can be found on my google drive link here (i prefer google drive because the photos actually stay put and don't disappear after a while like so many seem to do):

The vigneron had a couple non standard adaptations which make some OEM and aftermarket parts not suitable (mainly relating to body work around the seat) .

the parts on my shopping list have been genuine lights, grille pressings and seating in particular. You can see from the ford vigneron brochure on my google drive archive the seating is not the same as other Dexta's. I have been collecting all documents i can find as and when relating to the vigneron. I prefer original parts where possible but will readily use aftermarket when originals are not available (at least until the original parts become available)

so this one turned up near cognac which is not too far from me. He's asking for a daft price and listed the wrong year, I have already knocked him down to 1000 and even this provisional on the state of the engine. my target is the 600-800 euro mark. I've got his details and told him I will be back in touch within a couple weeks if I am interested.

This one seems to me to have a couple original parts i am looking for. including the seat (not the actual seat itself but the backrest support and licence plate holder), lights maybe (although pretty tired) and 3 out of the 4 grille pressings. My thought being by buying another complete vigneron I have a) many spare parts on hand. b) some parts in particular i am looking for c) the freedom to recondition certain parts without taking my vigneron apart and out of service. d) the opportunity to practice restoration techniques without breaking my current vigneron which is required for yard work and topping

so question is from what you can see (several photos and one video provided by the seller) what would you pay and why? and is this approach I have outlined a good move or not.

as always any pointers appreciated.

i might be better off just waiting for things to turn up on ebay. although I have not seen the seat anywhere, unless its a standard part i could find somewhere

photos and video of this vigneron for sale:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

and for background info here is photos of my particular vigneron acquired around 2022:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link

in my vigneron archive you can see the vigneron brochure which shows different seat arrangement albeit vaguely.

Thanks all

[Billy26F5]

Glad to see you back, if I were there I would get it but that the way I would always go. Looks pretty good, much earlier than yours. Not running great but shouldn't be difficult to fix. Your target is a good one, well worth trying for that. I see that you've found various manuals, the minimec one is not suitable (the governor spring is a coil one, not a leaf one). I'll hope to get one on here fairly soon.
Sandy

[gimiq]

Yes, collecting all the manuals i can get my hands on.

Think I will go and see it at the very least to get a better look at the seat. If He wont budge on the price might just make an offer for the grille pressings and metal seat back instead.

After having seen more marketing material on the dexta special in france it seems that the sticker that was painted over on my bonnet could possibly be correct and maybe original. Reading Emiels earlier thread on the special and looking at the french brochures (on my google drive archive). Shame though, the chrome badge is much classier and it seems it was just a cost cutting exercise to replace them with the stickers.

Anyway hope all is well in your corner of spain Sandy, I imagine it will be warming up pretty soon over there, if not already (depending on altitude). Time to make the fordsons pay their rent.

new post incoming on the mystery of the missing oil sump plate (and presumably filter) also temperature thermostat issue (think i will need to replace the thermostat and another flush).

[Billy26F5]

The decals are a feature of NP tractors, but yours is not a "special". The special was a std. width model with all the extras, and only sold in continental Europe. There are some prior to the NP's around. Yours should have the decals that look like the previous Dexta badges as on the tractor you're looking at. A serial no. for it would be great.
We're fine here, hoping the rain will finish soon so we can do some much needed ploughing, Billy and Super Billy will be getting their next oil changes soon too.
Sandy

[gimiq]

yes i think it was this particular image that was throwing me off:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Rv0Vin ... drive_link

and then this one too which appears to be a vigneron like mine from a french collector with the special badge (middle right):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nqxMdt ... drive_link

vigneron badged as special with blue mudguards, white wheels. seems to be vigneron with the reversed front steering arms, short side exhaust like mine


the first one on there speaking about "dexta special 32h" being the standard dexta and then the text description to the right talking about the options of "narrow" and "vigneron".

but then these are only drawings albeit official Ford France releases. The mudguards and wheels are blue too. I have read that often these drawings were not correct repros of the models of the time. And the lack of colour photographs making it harder to determine. E.g. some will show the grey white colour scheme with the orange wheatsheaf badge and so on.

Will be sure to get snaps of serial numbers if I go and see it.

I have acquired two original fordson dexta badges although they have the faded orange colour way. stamped with the J. Fray birmingham on the reverse. One has the fixings snapped off though. I wonder if I should look at removing the paint, were the originals just raw metal/chrome or did they paint the background same colour as the wheels etc? or were they also actually orange

I have spent the last few days looking at videos and pictures of fordson dextas, so much so I ended up dreaming about dexta's pretty much all night in my sleep. Best dream I have had in a long time

thanks again.

[Billy26F5]

I now see that, very interesting. Do you have a live clutch and any other extra (I suspect belt pulleys and pick-up hitches weren't offered with the vigneron due to lack of room)? Brochures and prototypes can confuse things.
The badges were all made by J. Fray of Birmingham, and were painted, in this case with orange backgrounds. Ford films are a good source of reference for things like this. Your tractor wasn't fitted with them.
If you need a new thermostat you need an AC TF3 or equivalent from Smiths. I think there might be some on Ebay at the moment.
Looks like you've done what I often do with Major's, Thames Trader's and other Major powered things!
Sandy

[gimiq]

yes it has the live drive 2 stage clutch, not sure what else, no handbrake (not enough space i imagine).

the defining characteristics of a true vigneron from the examples I have seen seem to be a track width of about 120cm down to 98cm (with different tyres) no foot plates, no radius rods, reversed steering arms, rear axel outer trumpets (not sure what the proper name for these are) removed, the shorter side swept exhaust and a different seat usually with a storage compartment under the seat because the standard seat does not fit. I think it is the lightest and most narrow Dexta that was made. Cheffins auctioneers claimed there were only 500 made in one of their auctions (although not sure how accurate that is).

a couple more french examples can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... drive_link

one of which is very close to what you described as what mine would have looked like. white grille pressings, white wings, chrome badges on the sides. (edit: i now understand you are saying that mine might have had the stickers that just said "fordson dexta" which i have been confusing to mean the chrome badges)

many narrow dexta's seem to get labelled as vignerons or vineyard versions, and very few seem to show the original vigneron seat. I think there is one or two examples I have seen which have some resemblance of the original seat left, all of which are found on my google drive.

I am not too fussed about the cosmetics at this point but if the opportunity arises to make it right I will try to. The mechanical side of things is more important but for a while I was wondering if the seat box was original to the vigneron, I think it was after having seen a couple other true vignerons.

regarding the thermostat, I have an AC TF2 on hand but that is 80c, I see many smiths bellows type for sale but never seen a 68c one with the shroud (i believe the shroud is the brass collar at the bottom of the thermostat as seen in your pictures of the TF4).

i've seen a couple of smiths shrouded bellows thermostat rated at 76c which is a little bit above the 68c

[Billy26F5]

The Narrow tractors are already unable to have the handbrake, only the parking latch on the RH side. The axle housings were specially made, as were the Narrow ones. I agree there is much confusion with Narrow models which were made by KFD, whereas the vigneron is a French only model. I'm beginning to think that vignerons with a live clutch were badged as Special, with non live clutch models had the straight Dexta badging. All NP's had decals, badges were used prior to them. I have no knowladge of how many vignerons or indeed Narrow tractors were made, but I suspect 500 is a bit low. Narrow tractors were sold in many parts of Europe, so there will be more of them, don't know if they went further afield as std tractors did. Narrow models have the std seat. You're lucky to have a TF2, there aren't many around. Really for Major's, they're too hot for Dexta's, as is the TF1, but less so. I'm not yet too familiar with the Smiths part numbers, although they were the commonest back in the day. In AC thermostats TF models are shrouded, TC models are not. Just had a look myself but can only find TF2's and TF4's as well as the TF1. Hopefully a TF3 will appear soon.
Sandy

[gimiq]

i found a remax nt100 rated at 68c made in england. It is a shrouded bellows type. And according to this forum thread:

https://forums.jag-lovers.com/t/new-bel ... ert/424057

it would be a suitable analog for the smiths and AC type.

It's worthwhile noting that they are speaking about the expensive moss versions which are made in china and this one was defective with poor customer service to add insult to injury.

I am hoping this Remax one might fit the bill

[Billy26F5]

The Remax one should be fine. Remax, Lucas and Quinton Hazell were all there too, but there were much fewer of them than AC and particularly Smiths, who dominated thermostat manufacturing back then. The Moss version is like the TF1 which doesn't fit any Fordson on temperature (it will fit in the hole though). The quality also looks doubtful. Nothing surprising about repro parts.
Sandy

[gimiq]

ok, so the seller went quiet on this one. But another one came up at a reasonable price and I have taken a punt on it.

it is a new performance super dexta vigneron. In some ways probably closer to my current dexta than the older dextas, it has the minimec and double clutch like most supers do.

Will require some work to be done on it though, it hasn't been started for 2 years until yesterday, the chap in the attached videos got it from an older chap who passed away around 4/5 years ago. originally bought from a local dealer not far from where i saw it. The current owner has 60 hectares of vineyards making cognac. Getting a bit old now and looked like he was selling up.

not sure if he actually used it and think it had been stored outside.

The lift arms are stuck up. the flow control is seized. decent amount of generalised rust on the rear hydraulics and front axle. But from what i gather it shouldn't be too much trouble to get the arms freed up. temp gauge original but snapped. tachometer original smiths and rev needle seemed to be working. pto seemed to be fine. gears ok. steering stiff. throttle lever rusted and stiff. think it just needs a good service, oiled and greased up everywhere that needs it.

from what i can tell it has virtually all the original features/parts on it. he also has a spare bonnet and the remaining two grille pressings to throw in on top. The current bonnet on it has had a chunk cut out around the battery, not sure why, but not too bothered considering there is another bonnet with it.

considering how long it has been laid up it started up pretty well. the engine seemed cold. it started up without even needing the heating element, no ether to be seen either.

it was only 700 euros so went for it. Will pick it up at some point this week. worst comes to worst its a bundle of original parts but from what i saw its all fixable an i would prefer to get it going and restore it over time. The dark underbelly is just grime and dirt came off with a wipe of the finger.

will give it a good service, change all filters and oils and see how it sounds after that.

pictures and videos can be seen here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

will post serial numbers after i have gotten it home.

thought a super vigneron would be a nice complement to the dexta i have.

[Billy26F5]

Looks like you found a great compannion there. I hadn't yet seen a Vigneron version of the Super Dexta, so even better. Definitely easy to fix as I see it.
Sandy