Dexta died and will not start :(

[tom lad]

another thought m8
as brain said , check uve lots of fuel to the injector pump ,or lift pump , un do a pipe fully , check u have a gd flow .

the filter in the fuel tap screwed in to the bottom of the tank on mine blocked badly twice , gave exact same symtoms as u have , i had to remove the tank , un screw the tap , rinse tank ,
the tap had wire wool pushed in a pipe to act as a filter , blocked badly , i tryed blowing air from the lift pump back to the tank , clears the muck but only a temp. solution as it just blocks again .

[nms-georg]

Hi!
Back again from my garage...

1) Have slackened the two bleed screws and pumped the hand primer to get air out of the pump while cranking the engine with these two loose, then tightening them one at a time --> everything fine
2) While moving the throttle I can see the lever rotate at the pump --> everything fine
3) Tried start with throttle lever fully pulled --> nothing
4) Took the heater manifold away and tried to start it without it --> nothing
5) Once pressing the primer tab the fuel is going through the pipe, but is not getting into the manifold --> have to order a new valve in the manifold
6) During removing the heater have broken it The small screw which is for mounting the wire is gone away

Tried to check the heater. I'm right, that while using it, the heater should get very hot? During my test it didn't get hot, could hold it easy in my hand... Is it possible that the enigine don't start cause the heater is not working? Calling for help from northern Germany, have now outside a temp about 1 degree celcius (about 33.8 degree F)...

Will now order at agriline a new
- heater plug (5454)
- fuel tap filter (5260)
- Fuel Tap Primer Pump (5406)

If you take a look at Agriline, # 7213 - Fuel Tap/Jet for Manifold - for what is this?

Will keep you uptodate once I fit everything in after delivery from agriline... So far, imagine guys what it could else be...

One more question: will it help or make something clear if I take the top cover away? Can I see then somthing more or check anything?

Thanks Guys, have a nice weekend and take care...
George

[nms-georg]

another thought m8
as brain said , check uve lots of fuel to the injector pump ,or lift pump , un do a pipe fully , check u have a gd flow .

Does anyone know how much it should be? As this are my first steps with old tractors I don't have a reference...

[jeveriss]

Before I repaired my lift pump the injector pump would only spray a couple of inches, however this was good enough to start/run the engine (though it ran poorly). Now my lift pump is fixed the injector pump now sprays several feet into the air. Remember not to stand around breathing in airborne diesel mist by the way!
Regarding the heater plug - I realised the fuse had fallen out of mine a few days ago but she still starts okay, just harder. Can someone tell me - Does the glow plug need to be fused, or is this a later addition.

[Bensdexta]

Regarding the heater plug - I realised the fuse had fallen out of mine a few days ago but she still starts okay, just harder. Can someone tell me - Does the glow plug need to be fused, or is this a later addition.

There are no fuses in the original Dexta electrical system, see section 9 of the workshop manual downloadable from http://www.fordson-dexta.de/

[tom lad]

have you found the manuals on stefans site yet m8
http://www.fordson-dexta.de/
the tap 7213 is at the end of the fuel line to the manifold nr. the heater , so u turn the primer off wen not needed .
the heater should glow VERY hot so it ignites the fuel from the primer / tap jet. i think 20 - 30 second of power ( press button on dash board ) to get it glowing .
never used it on mine tho , not needed to yet , not as cold as u here .
the point about fuel flow is that if u remove a fuel line , say to the lift pump , that a steady flow comes from the tank , not a drip , proving the tap filter is not blocked in the tank outlet , but if you are changing the tap and filter u will find out if its clean or not .
tom

[nms-georg]

Before I repaired my lift pump the injector pump would only spray a couple of inches, however this was good enough to start/run the engine (though it ran poorly). Now my lift pump is fixed the injector pump now sprays several feet into the air. Remember not to stand around breathing in airborne diesel mist by the way!
Regarding the heater plug - I realised the fuse had fallen out of mine a few days ago but she still starts okay, just harder. Can someone tell me - Does the glow plug need to be fused, or is this a later addition.

No, don't have fuses on my tractor. The electrical wiring is fine as I get 12.5 V at my heater plug while pressing the heater button...

[nms-georg]

One more question in the morning: does anyone knows if I can change the fuel tap filter & fuel tap primer pump without removing the tank?

Yeah, got the manuals and part list from Stefan sites - very helpful... But you need some background knowledge for this, and this is what I#m still learning :=)

[Brian]

You're problem, and that of others, when you are trying to find the fault is that you are not approaching it methodically. You are using a "scatter gun" method. As you say, it is because you have little experience with tractors.

To diagnose a fuel problem you start at the fuel tap and finish at the bleed screws on the pump seeing how the fuel flows from bleeders and pipes. Once you have a good flow of fuel from the bleed screws you can then say that you have a problem in pump or injectors. There is nothing you can do at this point as these need specialist repair.

A Dexta needs fire in the inlet manifold to start when the temperature drops. And I mean fire, not just a warm glow. There has to be a flame in the inlet manifold to get her to start. That is why you need a good working heater and a jet of diesel onto it. This is possibly why you cannot get it to start. That is why I suggested a whiff of ether to see if she will fire up.

Stick with it! It is a steep learning curve! We are having similar problems in the background, keeping scammers of this site. My learning curve is also very steep when it comes to computers and site management!

[blue32]

Yes I am follow Brian,s recomendations about start with the tank and fuel tap, get the tank clean check that fuel run to the jet inlet while pressing at the pump, change glow plug, (obs. the glowplug need less then 30 seconds to glow... - over 40 second will probably damage the plug for over heating) and next clean up the fuelfilter, then bleed with air screews (using the handpump) (you need to see clean diesel whitout air in it) set on the air screews again...set handthrotle on alitle and pull on the coldstartplug at your pump, "on the stoplever" Try to start the tractor after push the heaterbutton for 30 second, and allready pushed three or four press on the fueltap "jetinletpump"
, you will here a "puff" and this puff is becose the Dieseljet in the inlet is firing from the glowplug. Just after.. you have to try start. If the tractor still not start after all this when all this is working good? Then I would check the timing for the pump compare with the flywheel.

p.s. The blue top cap above the engine is only a cover for all the valves in the head. (valve,s can be adjusted from here) The head is where the valve are sitting...You need new engine topseal for mounting the head again. But with head off, you will also see how the cylinder,s quality are by turning the engin. If you want to change pistons and ring,s you have to take the engine of the tractor, and take of the bottompan... for to change all importen seals in the bottom of the engine too.

mikkel

[nms-georg]

Hey Guys!
Thanks for your help. I know, my method to search the fault is not the best one. Biggest problem: I don't have references how it should be. Once I see fuel flowing, I still don't know if its to much, to less or whatever... But as you mentioned: I'm learning every minute something new...

Will now wait for the heater plug, install it and give it a try again... will keep you fresh with new information...

By the way, have been searching for some more information and found this dexta here on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oh7NaCmECc
My dexta sounds 100% the same as this one (0 to 40 sec)...

Thanks, George

[Aussie Frank]

Hi George,

If your Dexta is turning over as slowly as the one in the video and it is only 0 celsius where you are it will be very difficult to start without a working cold start heater and pump IMHO. Although I don't have a Dexta my Perkins P6 will make the same smoke and noise for ever unless I use the heater and cold start pump at any temperature less than 20 celsius. I am not sugesting that the Dexta engine is a Perkins but I have seen that same smoke and had the flat battery too often before I fixed the heater and fitted the Kigas pump.

Given that you have done so much work cleaning and bleading the fuel system I would try tow starting it just to make sure it runs and then fix the cold start ASAP. It is probably just a tiny fraction off starting just because it is a little too cold.

Just my two cents worth.

Regards, Frank.

[tom lad]

hi george
i agree with frank , the battery sounds to be near flat on the video , far easyer to start any engine with a fully charged battery , the engine should crank over faster .

but nice demonstration of the white smoke i,ve bin muttering about tho showing fuel is being injected .

the fire / heat of aworking glow plug / primer would make things easyer tho.

my tvo fergie only needs to rotate ,( get over compression ) to run , if in a gd mood , BUT a diesel engine like this needs a gd battery on a cold day.
give a sniff un try again .

another thought m8 how long have you had the dexta and how easy to star is it normaly in you're climate ?
tom

[nms-georg]

Back with news for you guys...

1) Have took away the pipe from primer pump to the fuel pump and pressed some air into to primer with my air compressor - after doing this the fuel flow have raised significant...
2) Bleed everything as discussed earlier

Cranked for about 60 sec and she begun to fire. Engine started and have been running for about 5 sec and died again... Didn't make a second start as my battery got very low...

Will wait now for the new heater plug and give it a try with it later...

So far, I think, with the heater plug should it start working - hopefully

Take care,
George

by the way, got the info that inside the fuel pump, there are some more small filter. Found on Agriline fuel lift pump repair kit. Should I order it and change it as well or no need?

[jeveriss]

I've had the same thing happen when I've got a bad seal somewhere in the fuel system. If it only ran for a few seconds I should think the air leak (if this is the problem) will be on the pump somewhere.
Once the engine has fired, I should think the heater plug is irrelevant.
When trying to restart without the heater, don't use the primer as it's easy to 'flood' the engine I find.

[fenhayman]

"Whoa there" English phrase for slowing down or stopping horses which were travelling too fast.
"Examine the evidence" Phrase used by detectives, I might have been one, before jumping to conclusions.
We have here a tractor engine which starts and runs (only for a short time).
So we forget batteries,heaters, starter motors, pumps and injectors, heads, gaskets etc.

An engine, once running, needs fuel and air. We are told that the air system is Ok but do check the air cleaner pipe which sits over the bonnet and the fuel tank cap - does it admit air, or is there a bird's nest in it?- a vacuum in the tank will create a fuel shortage.
Fuel tap from tank should run like any pipe, not drip.
So it's back to basics, no expense needed, just methodically bleed every stage, from the tank onwards, as soon as clear fuel flows without bubbles tighten the bleed screw and move onto the next. Only open one bleed screw at a time.

[Dexta Guy]

Hi George,

Just another idea.... After the engine has run and cut out is there air in the fuel if you try to bleed it again? Mine had similar symptoms and it turned out to be the lift pump diaphagm which had ripped.

Good luck anyway!

[Jerry Coles]

George
This may be a stupid question but ----
Did your engine die because you ran out of fuel in the first place? An inch or so of fuel in the tank with the tractor on a slope may have been sufficient for it to stop.
Are you sure it was diesel you put in the tank when you filled it?
I must hold my hand up and say I did it to my car once, got about 5 miles and then it died. After being towed home and draining the petrol (gasoline) out of the tank and filling up with diesel, when it did start it seemed to run a little better - Peugeot 306.

Jerry
Bath
UK

[jeveriss]

Doesn't it act like an engine/injector cleaner Jerry? I'd rather try the bottled stuff first mind!

[nms-georg]

Hej Guys! Have to say THANKY YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU - my Dexta is running again...

Have filled up the tank, did the blleding once again - slowloy and carefully, pressed the button at the off-switch and tried to start. After cranking for 30sec and some up and downs with the throttle lever she begun to fire... yeah...

Thank you very much for your help...

The best think is: my learning curve. Have learned a lot about the fuel system of an old tractor :=)

Thanks, George

[tom lad]

good to hear m8

so what do u think was wrong ?

fuel tap filter blocked ???????
tom

[nms-georg]

Think a bit of dirt in the fuel tap and not enough time during bleeding... Main reason was - as I think - not enough Diesel in my tank what start to causing the problems...

But in the end everything fine and I have learned a lot

[Brian]

Well done!

It can be a difficult concept to grasp. Unlike a petrol engine, a diesel fuel system must be totally free of air before fuel can be injected into the engine.

Putting it simply, unlike diesel, air can be compressed and when you have air in the system it acts like a cushion and prevents the pump building pressure to inject diesel into the cylinders.

Get the heater and primer fixed and your tractor will start happily at very low temperatures.