Steering Box - overhaul or not?

[Bensdexta]

There is about 1/4" fore & aft play at the ends of the drop arms of my steering box.

Put another way, with the drop arms at a fixed position, there is about 40degs of rotation in the steering wheel.

Is this 'par' for a Dexta, or should I consider refurbing the bottom of the steering box. The nut and the top has been changed and shimmed up by someone who knows Dextas. I can't feel any significant lateral play in the drop arms, only fore & aft movement at the ends of the arms, so does that mean the bushes are OK?

TIA

[dexta4]

i'd do it if i were you as its so easy to do it now rather than put your dexta back together then regret not doing it

[Bensdexta]

i'd do it if i were you as its so easy to do it now rather than put your dexta back together then regret not doing it

Is it that easy? What would you do?
TIA

[blue32]

Hi Ben, Try to lift the steeringwheel up and down, (if it is gap when lifting?? the prob,s is on top of the steeringbox) -then you have to take avay some shim again...
(if not gap on the top... you have to shim in bottom of left side of steering box) -When this is repaired... next is draglink,s on booth side, front and rear. and finally if it still is some gap?? mybee you must overhaul your frontaxel too. -p.s.(look for part,s on Agriline ltd ,s partslist).

Mikkel

[Bensdexta]

Hi Ben, Try to lift the steeringwheel up and down, (if it is gap when lifting?? the prob,s is on top of the steeringbox) -then you have to take avay some shim again...
(if not gap on the top... you have to shim in bottom of left side of steering box) -When this is repaired... next is draglink,s on booth side, front and rear. and finally if it still is some gap?? mybee you must overhaul your frontaxel too. -p.s.(look for part,s on Agriline ltd ,s partslist). Mikkel

There is no gap at the top of the column when lifting, some sideways wobble at the very top but no vertical movement. I don't see any shims at the bottom left side of my steering box.

No drag links fitted yet, just trying to decide what to do with the steering box. (Drag links & front axle are overhauled already see http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... r&start=25 )

Thanks

[Lesfen]

Hi Ben,

By all means overhaul it and then I will have someone to advise and guide me.
Our S. Dexta has about 45 degrees movement which seems waaaay tooo much.

Happy to chirp in,
Les

[Bensdexta]

By all means overhaul it and then I will have someone to advise and guide me.
Our S. Dexta has about 45 degrees movement which seems waaaay tooo much.

Les,
You're lucky
Your side of the pond, these guys will sell you a reconned box for $525
http://www.brokentractor.com/ford-steer ... boxes.html

[Bensdexta]

Revised calc gives 25degs slop in the steering box alone - is that too much or 'par' for a Dexta?

[blue32]

Yes, but I still think it is some parts insides the steering column who is the prob... Look at the partslist at Agrilines ltd - (Fordson Dexta) The part number 53140
-Steering box shaft Repair kit.
and part number 5095 - Steeringbox top shaft seal
and Two pc of steering box side seal (here is only the left side shaft removable, and behind this side shaft I possume it will find some shim and gasket (you will not be able to buy new shim here, (the old is ok to use if nesessary again) but new gasket has partsnumber 5096

after reassembled this parts, you can ceep the oil insides the steeringbox without leaking out, and mybee the steering is as new again

Mikkel

[blue32]

Hi again Ben, My advise for eliminate this prob,s is to disassemble the hole steeringbox for measure every part insides. Then you will also check where to have to be doone with all part,s and the left shaft too, mybee that part need to plane off some? My point of view is that if you have all part,s disambled, it is easier to find the main prob. The steeringbox with all parts is somehow moore difficoult to find the probs assembled then if it is dissambled I think.

Mikkel

[Bensdexta]

Many thanks for the advice. Some Qs:

Am I correct in thinking that the steering box only has one ball bearing race, the one in the top nut?

Also are there replaceable bushes for the rocker shafts in the LH & RH 'rocker shaft housings'?

Is there any bush to support the lower end of the worm shaft, or does it just rub on the inside of the box at the bottom of the steering box?

If there is still rotation in the steering wheel when all the play has been taken out of the top nut, is this due to wear in the worm? Or is it wear in the slots at the bottom of the steering worm shaft & the rocker shaft ends?
Your advice appreciated

[blue32]

Goodmorning again Ben,
- Yes it,s right, it is only ball.b in top of the steering shaft...therfor shim...

- Bushes for the rocker shaft (booth side) is mybee available?? I am not sure about this, but anyvay mybee some mecanical workshop can made some new too?

- No it is not bush support in the lower end of steering worm shaft. (therfor it will be shim again in the left rocker shaft)

- Yes, but if you already has tryed to lift the part with the ball.s in top of the worm(up and down), you will find out how good the worm still is.

Mikkel

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Ben.

Have you had a look at Stephan's site? He had similar problems to you. It might be more than just shims bearings etc. You can find his answer here http://www.fordson-dexta.de/501255978f1 ... index.html Personally I hate bad steering, it takes all the fun out of driving, so I would definitely pull it apart and fix it IMHO.

Regards, Frank.

[Bensdexta]

Have you had a look at Stephan's site? He had similar problems to you. It might be more than just shims bearings etc. You can find his answer here http://www.fordson-dexta.de/501255978f1 ... index.html Personally I hate bad steering, it takes all the fun out of driving, so I would definitely pull it apart and fix it IMHO.

Many thanks for the link. I searched through Stefan's site, but didn't find this page.

Has anyone else welded the lower worm shaft to repair the slots?

[russelm]

Hi Ben

The steering box is not hard to strip and setup, the only minor issue I had was removing the steering arms but, application of a three legged puller, apply some tension and then a quick wave with the MAP gas torch and off they came.

I got new seals from Silver Fox Tractor Spares (one for the top and two for the lower ends).

I did not need to weld and grind any of my parts and the bushes were all fine.

Setup is easy enough, the only issues I had was I could not remove the slop from the top nut and the fault turned out to be that in the past it had 16 ball bearings fitted and not 15!

I got the upper steering repair kit from Emmark (they were the cheapest).

I have to say that the steering box assembly is now very good with very little if any slop at all.

As for the weld repair thats mentioned, that looks fine and pretty easy to do. We often carry out such jobs on the locomotives and some of the plant at the heritage centre and it works well. The actual gear is in a bath of thickish oil so wear should not be to big an issue.

[Bensdexta]

The steering box is not hard to strip and setup, the only minor issue I had was removing the steering arms but, application of a three legged puller, apply some tension and then a quick wave with the MAP gas torch and off they came.
I got new seals from Silver Fox Tractor Spares (one for the top and two for the lower ends).
I did not need to weld and grind any of my parts and the bushes were all fine.
Setup is easy enough, the only issues I had was I could not remove the slop from the top nut and the fault turned out to be that in the past it had 16 ball bearings fitted and not 15!
I got the upper steering repair kit from Emmark (they were the cheapest).
I have to say that the steering box assembly is now very good with very little if any slop at all.
As for the weld repair thats mentioned, that looks fine and pretty easy to do. We often carry out such jobs on the locomotives and some of the plant at the heritage centre and it works well. The actual gear is in a bath of thickish oil so wear should not be to big an issue.

Mark,
Many thanks. Took my top nut off tonight - rather manky under there

[russelm]

Yes, mine had received a dose of grease at some time in the past so was also a bit cruddy!

If you grab your steering arms, and move them, does the opposite one move in sympathy over the free play you describe?

That is what mine was like and it was the top nut worn (the nut race surface was also very pitted).

If the worm shaft was worn as per the pictures in your link, I would expect the steering arms to ahve independent free play.

[Bensdexta]

OK following the doom sayers, I got my box to bits.
Easy as folk said, exc I had to have a local mechanic press the drop arms off.
Plenty of cruddy grit in the bottom - not nice.
Top nut (replacement ordered):

Bottom of worm shaft, showing wear points from action with rocker arm.

Matching wear points on the rocker arm

Close up of worst wear point, estimated at 1/8mm deep, but smooth and shiny. What to do about it??

Cocktail stick in mystery hole, which goes almost right through the shaft - what's it for?

View of bottom of worm shaft showing bevels against which the rocker heals slide

I finally understand how the geometry works at the bottom. All the bearing surfaces are on a taper, so removing a shim from the LH rocker housing has the effect of reducing any free play in the bottom of the box - clever.

[russelm]

To be honest, the wear you have is so minimal I would not worry about, in fact it looks in pretty good shape!

The figure of 1/8mm is about 5 thou so pretty dam small!

[Bensdexta]

Disappointed with my new top nut. It looks quite black inside, so doesn't appear to have been machined.

Reckon the end float is 1/3mm, defo more than my 50 year old one. Given the worm pitch of 14.5mm, 1/3mm end float equates to 8degs rotation of the steering wheel - surely too much?

New one has a bit less side-to-side wiggle, but it's end float that gives rise to play in the steering? So if I can't find a better one, think I'll put my original back,even though the race is a bit pitted. I see from the parts list that nut and worm shaft were originally supplied as a matched set.

What is other ppls experience?

[Bensdexta]

I have found the following 3 replacement worm nuts:

Sparex S.67786 TOP SHAFT REPAIR KIT-DEXTA
Bepco 24/531-4 REPAIR KIT
Vapormatic VPJ5305 - Steering column repair kit

Does anyone know if these are actually from different sources, or are they all the same and likely to be of equally dubious quality??

[Jan 59]

RE steering worm nut: inside must be machined but through hardening process afterwards material looks blue black. You better check how it fits to worm shaft.

Hole in steering worm shaft? Is there hole in center to top connected to this hole, then I think it is to help passing oil to bottom of steering box. If not may be it is for manufacturing purposes i.e locating part in milling equipment.

[Dell Balallan]

Sorry for interupting this thread but im finding this helpful to me as I am working on the steering box of my dexta just now.
the problem I have is that there is about a quarter turn either direction on the steering wheel before it starts to turn the wheels, as far a s i can see there is no play on the bottom arms they are tight.
no my question is would this repair kit sort out my problem?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORDSON-DEXTA ... 20bc1e022e
thanks for you time.

[Bensdexta]

RE steering worm nut: inside must be machined but through hardening process afterwards material looks blue black. You better check how it fits to worm shaft.
Hole in steering worm shaft? Is there hole in center to top connected to this hole, then I think it is to help passing oil to bottom of steering box. If not may be it is for manufacturing purposes i.e locating part in milling equipment.

Yes, as I say the new nut fits poorly IMHO, looser than my 50yr old original, so I think I'll be sending it back and refitting the original.

Ref the hole, no there is no end hole, so my hunch too it is for locating part when milling.

[Bensdexta]

Sorry for interupting this thread but im finding this helpful to me as I am working on the steering box of my dexta just now.
the problem I have is that there is about a quarter turn either direction on the steering wheel before it starts to turn the wheels, as far a s i can see there is no play on the bottom arms they are tight.
no my question is would this repair kit sort out my problem?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORDSON-DEXTA ... 20bc1e022e

See Russelm's post above about wiggling the drop arms to see where the wear is. If arms move in sympathy, wear is in top nut/bearing. Suggest you dismantle the top bearing to check condition; it may just need reshimming to tighten it up. If the nut/ball race is v poor, yes the repair kit you mention will help. But as I've discovered these kits don't seem to be of great quality, so improvement may be less than hoped.

If the wear is at the bottom of the box, you're best to strip it down & inspect - again hopefully just needs reshimming.

Also of course you may need to look forward of the ST box, at drag links, radius rods & front axle