clutch bind

[tom lad]

hi

the clutch is binding progresively worse on my s dexta .. live drive model

i helped to change the rope crank rear oil seal on this tractor about 10 - 15 year a go ( before it was my tractor)
( to fix the same symptoms . as now )
thats the first and only rope seal i've changed , we did not soke the seal before fitting , didn't know i should .

clutch worked fine till now , poss. 80 - 100 hrs at a guess .

now i some times get the odd drop of black engine oil at the hole below bell housing

so will oil on clutch cuse my binding / difficulty changing gear / holding in gear / have to put left sellector in nutral to change HI / LOW . even clutch depessed have to use brake pedal to hold still .

i think i know i gotta split it again just dont want to lol

should i have soked the rope oil seal before fitment then ?

current plan it to give it some field work to see if that helps as it bin parked up for a while .
very little to adjust externaly ?



so new seal ,pilot and thrust bearing .. clean clutch plates ?
tom

[russelm]

Yes, the rope seals needed soaking in oil before fitting (the instructions that came with mine said 1-2 horus but I left it overnight and very slightly thinned the oil with diesel).

I suspect that this is to stop burning of the seal on first startup.

As for the clutch, is it adjusted ok?......got to be the first port of call I would suggest

[tom lad]

thanx russel i was ignoring the basics

my free play was nearer 1. 5 " so sdjusted to 3/4 " i was ignoring the adjustment because it still miss behaves in pto pin hole ,raised pedal.

the adjustment has helped but i've noticed the foot plate mounting bracket is leaning up (prob to meet the non enfo, (fergie me tinks )mudgard extension . so the outside edge of the clutch pedal is bottoming out if i straighten the bracket the clutch can travel a bit further .
the clutch seems to be not JUST disegageing , so gears are still powered a bit , easly stopped by useing the brake pedal .


the pedal its self looks slightly twisted , down on the outside edge, not sure if its bad enough to risk trying to straighen tho
the pedal in the photo is the foot rest not the clutch pedal - higher up.

if its only pedal adjustment tho shouldn't it fully disengage when set in the pto pin hole ???

[blue32]

Hi fellows...Yes I think all this prob,s is from small parts onto clutch systems and disk,s and also oil-leak from rope seal from engine crank, and also ecual from oilseals from transmission.
The tractor have to be separed opned clutch house, clutch system have to be disambled for measur for overhauling or not???
Adjust correct freeplay have to be done from outsaid tractor. 3/4" (so the clutch pedal also is correct high) -then after that adjust you have to measure the different between frontside from clutchdisk to frontside of ptodisk. (becouse this measuretaken will not be equal...lets say from tractor is new from the fabrik to some tired clutch after 50 years, ok?) this will tell you how the screw,s have to be adjusted...three screws for clutchdisk and three screews for the ptodisk...(so also screews set exact like that different) BUT remember: the adjustmentscreews (nerest the clutchbearing) has first to adjust exact so long out or in as you find out after holding the clutchpedal down 3/4" freeplay...holding down the freeplay clutchpedal will exact clutchbearing touch the first screews after asembling tractor again ten.

I,ve seen many Dextas with double clutch wrong adjusted as like the clutch pedal is very high, or not in normal high, and it tell,s me that some has tryed to adjust this tired tractor only from the linkages from outsaid tractor

Mikkel

[Bensdexta]

Yes, the rope seals needed soaking in oil before fitting (the instructions that came with mine said 1-2 horus but I left it overnight and very slightly thinned the oil with diesel). I suspect that this is to stop burning of the seal on first startup.

My tractor has not yet been started since the rope seal was replaced two years ago.

Will it have dried out by now?

Is there some way of oiling it now before I start her up?
TIA

[blue32]

Yes, the rope seals needed soaking in oil before fitting (the instructions that came with mine said 1-2 horus but I left it overnight and very slightly thinned the oil with diesel). I suspect that this is to stop burning of the seal on first startup.

My tractor has not yet been started since the rope seal was replaced two years ago.

Will it have dried out by now?

Is there some way of oiling it now before I start her up?
TIA

Hi, no it is not something who will oil the rope seal befor starting, but I think it will go well without anything, (but if you want to be sure) mybee you could overfill with oil insides engine...and let it stay for som minutes, for to lens it out again to right level befor starting ??.

[Bensdexta]

Hi, no it is not something who will oil the rope seal befor starting, but I think it will go well without anything, (but if you want to be sure) mybee you could overfill with oil insides engine...and let it stay for som minutes, for to lens it out again to right level befor starting ??.

So fill it to the top of the sump and leave it to soak overnight - and don't forget to drain it down again before starting!?

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Ben,

You are probably talking about a lot of oil to over fill to that level. However if you soaked the rope seal before assembly there should be no problem with it on start up as it would still be well oiled, but I would pull the injectors out before start up and turn it over on the starter until you got oil pressure before running it to make sure the bearings were well oiled. They could possibly be at far greater risk of drying out over time.

Just my two cents worth.

Regards, Frank.

[tom lad]

i think cranking it over for 30 seconds to well lube up the internals sounds a gd plan , with the pull to stop out , will be much kinder on the starter motor is the engine is decompesed - injectors out .

still with the pull to stop out so u aint pumping diesel everywere,

would u be able to see oil / wet ness on the rockers thu the oil filler / rocker cover , to prove the pressure has built up ?



not had chance to touch mine yet

[russelm]

On the oil priming, a realy good and simple method is to force oil in through the oil feed pipes on the starter motor side of the block with an oil can. Most oil cans can easily generate a few psi and this way you get good clean oil into the bearings before turning it over.

On the subject of the clutch drag, I am yet to see oil contamination cause this.

If the clutch is dragging then the pressure plate is not clearing and drive is still being transmitted to the transmission.

This could be poor adjustment of the clutch pedal or worn components

[tom lad]

took footplate bracket off , bit more bent than i thought

straightened it

clutch does work a lot better
the pedal now bottoms on the square shoulder cast in the pedal shaft , as it should i tink
still draging a bit but nothing like it was , im reluctant to remove to much play in the pedal .

so im hoping the issue is / was adjustment not contamination

thanx for help

[blue32]

On the oil priming, a realy good and simple method is to force oil in through the oil feed pipes on the starter motor side of the block with an oil can. Most oil cans can easily generate a few psi and this way you get good clean oil into the bearings before turning it over.

On the subject of the clutch drag, I am yet to see oil contamination cause this.

If the clutch is dragging then the pressure plate is not clearing and drive is still being transmitted to the transmission.

This could be poor adjustment of the clutch pedal or worn components

"On the subject of the clutch drag, I am yet to see oil contamination cause this"

I think everybody know that oil on pressurplates did not cause that spec prob,s "dragging transmission" but oil on clutchdisk,s... did affect some fading in the surface too from oil-leak,s -my main point of this is that 99% of clutchproblems coming from long long hard work, and often will also other prob,s follow hard works... as reading above several of this tread, also other,s did almost all people talking of dripping oil...and so on. - and it would be very bad to not give the info about changing ropeseal rear end of engine - seal,s in front of transmission too, in same procedure then.

[Brian]

The other cause of "clutch drag" is a faulty pilot bearing. This should always be replaced when replacing a clutch along with the thrust bearing.

Neither oil on the clutch disc or a faulty bearing will cause jumping out of gear as in the original post.

I always put a smear of moly grease on the rope seal after fitting as well as oil soaking. Later type seals had a graphite compound in the top surface and did not need soaking but I still used the grease. If I am not going to work on an engine or run it for a period, after an overhaul, I again use a smear of the same grease when assembling the crankshaft and bearings. Oil dries and leaves the surfaces if left for a period of time after a rebuild and I have concerns about priming as I doubt you will get oil around the bearing surfaces before you start turning the engine. But that is only my thoughts.

[tom lad]

i may have worded it badly brian sorry , sometimes ,wen i want to change gear i need two hands to pull it out , sometimes , other times it is silky smooth change . it doesnt jump out of gear

i think i need to split her to find out exactly whats wrong

removing play on the pedal has definatly helped , but it aint sorted yet , i dearnt have any less play ( am i right in thinking with no play the thrust bearing will touch the three clutch toggles all the time un quickly wear out the thrust bearing ?)

when we split it years ago the pilot bearing was sat / jamed on the fly wheel bolts heads / so not fitted at all ?????? the inner spline was completly un supported at the flywheel end , complete with a bit of wear on the shalf ( prob. rear bearing ?) and to the splines , the transmition plate got renewed but she still has the original shaft , as we didnt want to break into the gear box .obviously refitted the pilot bearing i cant remember is we renewed them both, ( with new) but knowing the guy that owned it i bet he didnt .

i went to a ploughing match yesterday so it had a bit of work and still missbehaving

i dont think the plates are quite clearing

tom

[Jan 59]

Had clutch bind trouble with my 59 Dexta (no live drive) Trouble caused by corrosion on splines of gearbox input shaft and in clutch plate hub. Plate was very difficult to slide on axle.
Cleaned axle and plate hub splines and coated with Molykote paste type G , This cured my problem .

[tom lad]

makes me wonder about the wear on the splines ... would prob cause the same effect as rust / corosion wouldn't it .

not gonna split it in the short term , as ive jobs for it , but i think im gonna have to , to be shure as to whats going on .

i've too many logs to cut with my mc connel saw bench ! what a brill tool . haven't decided if it s better than my fergie saw bench , altho a diesel engines much easyer to opperate than a tvo one