Starter SOS. Need Help, Dad selling Dexta as 'unfinished'

[Wee59dexta]

After 3 years of restoration, in the last 6 weeks we got her started. Then the solenoid went, bought from A......... Dynamo bought from A........... failed and wouldn't charge enough to put out red light. Got tested and told it was 'rubbish'. Along with the solenoid both were fitted outside the warranty period so 'rubbish'.

Then replaced solenoid and starter switch went. Then starter went and we paid £120 to a auto electrician to 'fix'. took home and fitted to tractor, on second attempt at starting the starter failed again. Told the bendix was held in too long (which was not the case) and we agreed on a fix.

Started the tractor and drove her to an old fordson mechanic who said he could fix the lift. when the lift is operated it continually pumps and the arms will not drop. Went 3 days ago and paid the mechanic, who replaced o rings and seals etc. and showed us the lift working. the mechanic was also making a battery clamp and going to fix the throttle direction as discussed in another thread.

Yesterday got a call from the mechanic who went to start the dexta, and when he did, heard a bang, and the nut which secures the hot lead to the starter terminal broke and shot off. Mechanic blamed the auto electrician so i returned the starter to him.

Anyway jumped the tractor and drove home. Parked in the shed and went to operate the lift, lowered once, then lifted and stuck as before! Went back to mechanic who told me he needs the tractor starting before he can work at it. (My starter is banjaxed)


I'd love to hear your thoughts please............

[Bensdexta]

Sorry to hear your tale of woe

Sounds like you've been given the run around. These ol girls are not rocket science, even for an Irish man ,and a good mechanic should have no trouble sorting the few remaining snags.

After all your hard work, you've got her going and only a wimp would throw in the towel now. She'll be worth much more as a working tractor, than as a dog no one can fix. Tell the Ol Man that you'll do /pay for the fixes yourself. If ££ a prob, get ya'self a paper round and earn some brass like my daughter did to buy her first car.

Have you joined your local tractor club, talked to other local Dexta owners or the likes of Bertie Dunlop? You need to find a knowledgable and trusted mechanic, not your local charlatan, to guide you and help you fix her. Go and get some good advice and get her sorted - then you 'll feel much better about her and yourself and Dad will be proud of you!

OR tell Dad it's a heap of carp, worth only scrap and you'll take it off him for a couple hundred notes.

[blue32]

Hi W.59... s Ben says, i am also sorry for you having such prob,s with your litle blue. mybee she want to die?? --- Well don,t give up. Of ten modern mecanic,s it is mybee only one who mybee can help out your prob,s...do ask some people with experiences as serviceman for this tractors or use pm or seek up the specialists in this forum.
Your wiring mybee do not work right for the current at your dexta. The Dexta has to be polarized in your dynamo for your hot terminal...(witch is minus at Dextas). I also think you has to find "Oscars wiringdiagrahm" who fit good for the tractor...(did this for my tractor) Try to draw up each wiring course for recheck the wiringlom. If this is wrong at any time...it will coarse some bad electric element,s at the tractor.
The Lucas system is OK if it is check,d up as wiringdiagrahm say. But it is some different as all new system for today, so if someone "modern mecanic,s" has done some wrong at here, it is probably who couses this bad result.

1. Your dynamo has to be polarized for the hot terminal
2.It have to go a "thicker" yellow wire from hot terminal onto A or A1. at regulator
3. a wire from F at regulator, to F at Dynamo
4. a thicker wire from D at regulator, to D at dynamo
5. E at regulator goes to ground

6.a yellow/white wire from A1. or A to the keyign. switch
7. a red wire from keyswitch to the starterswitch
8. a red/white from starter switch to the small terminal on Solenoid.
9.The two big starterwiring,s goes from the hot terminal of battery through the two big terminals on top of solenoid, and stright to the starter

This is the main wiring for getting the tractor started and chargeabel.
The different light and instument wiring has to be mounted and checked from the wiringdiagrahm. (one tip is from me that it can be checked with some wiring with a fuse on) Hope that you and your dad can come over the problems. Good luck.
blue32.

[Wee59dexta]

Thanks for your help guys! I appreciate this very much. This 'hobby' is going to cause me to move out. Just a question tho.....

What would have caused the terminal on the starter to crack and break off? Could this have been related to the faulty dynamo. Remember guys my starter has now died twice.

The wiring to and from the solenoid and regulator etc is correct. The dynamo was flashed and the electrics are positive earth.

It does seem however that something is cooking the starter?

[blue32]

Your starter mybee could had some short cut,s or some default,s already befor..mybee burned wirings?? I can not see any other reason, mybee someone has made this prob,s on it ?? Try to find an old starter and put it on a testbench in the workshop... or mybee dismantle your starter and seek for failures. Mybee someone can help with measures on it? Try to start it directly in your workshop?
blue32

[GERRY]

Hi sorry to hear your thinking of getting rid of your dexta after all the time and money
you both have put into it, if it can be sold and the money you have put into it recouped
now, surely if you stick with it and can get the electrics ect sorted you should be able to get what ever eles you have to spend on it back ,mybe there is a dexta enthuseist
somewhere up there in there that lovely little of county of tyrone that could help out, the
electrics can be a nightmare even to the most savay person , all i can say is stick with it
you are nearly there . Gerry

[dexta roadless]

Hi sorry to hear your thinking of getting rid of your dexta after all the time and money
you both have put into it, if it can be sold and the money you have put into it recouped
now, surely if you stick with it and can get the electrics ect sorted you should be able to get what ever eles you have to spend on it back ,mybe there is a dexta enthuseist
somewhere up there in there that lovely little of county of tyrone that could help out, the
electrics can be a nightmare even to the most savay person , all i can say is stick with it
you are nearly there . Gerry

Amen
Don't give up yet.
I suggest you give the starter back to the autoelectrician and tell him that he is to blame since he didn't see the bendix was stuck. That is part of the job when checking the starter. The bendix doesn't fail so sudden.
When it comes to the hydraulic,-- Do you have a big clearance on the big spring on the top link mount, or do you have any implement that pushes the top link mount in when lifting the hydraulics. That will cause the system to jam.

[Wee59dexta]

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DSCF2304 by Skidancer1, on Flickr

There are no instruments attached to the top link. Not even a rocker cover. The arms stay in the raised position. I dont think the lift and the lever has ever been set as according to the instructions on the wiki.

My Dad said the arms raised and lowered onced, then nothing. As im typing this i'm thinking, if Dad (who is more a liability by the way, but is retired and has the time) selected qualitrol, would having no implement on the top link stop it from working?

Thanks again!

[GERRY]

the hyd might need setting as pre the wliki site ect , having said that the arms do need abit of weight
to bring them back down again if you stand on them they will usually come slowly down . if not
then you may need to reset them , or some of the vavles may be sticking ect, GERRY

[commander]

I take it you mean the lift raises and wont go down when the tractor is running?
If so, I can tell you one possible cause...(it happened to me once ) and it's not too hard to check.

There is a check valve in the top cover,front edge. It's behind a plug located just under the aux services. It's pretty easy to forget to put that check ball back in if you had it apart, leave the spring or the guide out of there, or perhaps the valve is sticking open. From memory, you can remove the plug and most of the components out of there without taking the top off.
It' a good idea to have a look at the parts book, or service manual to see what's in there and how it goes together.

[Wee59dexta]

Got the starter today. Wired it up this evening. New problem though, when i switch the ignition switch on the starter motor operates. I do not have to press the lever. I checked the wiring and all seems ok. the red and white switch wire is live it seems. I'm guessing there must be a fault with the solenoid? this is the third solenoid. Before anyone asks the solenoid is wired as follows.

Yellow wire and negative bat lead on 'hot' post.
Starter battery lead on opposite post.
Red and white wire on small terminal to starter switch.
earth wire opposite above.

problems............

[Brian]

Wire from ignition should go to one terminal on the starter switch, wire from other side of starter switch should go to the small terminal on solenoid. If you have it like this your problem must be the switch on the starter motor. That is the only way that power can get to the solenoid.

You do not have the live from the ignition switch going direct to the solenoid do you?



Very rough drawing but you should see how it works.

[Wee59dexta]

Brian, i really appreciate you taking the time to draw that diagram. Very helpful! I've checked, and double checked. My tractor is wired exactly as your diagram. It must be the switch. If i understand correctly when the starter switch is operated via the lever on the starter motor, current is sent to the small terminal on the solenoid, which closes and sends the high voltage via the battery lead to the starter.

At the min the starter motor is constantly operated. There is no permanent live to the starter switch. I have checked. However the solenoid will not click/close. There must be a fault with the starter switch as it is constantly operating without the need to press the lever. I do not understand though, surely if the motor switch is constantly operating then shouldn't it be sending current to the solenoid?

[dexta roadless]

you should try to take off one end of the small wire between starter switch and solenoid and check if it is live when ign. on. If it is the switch i faulty.

[Wee59dexta]

you should try to take off one end of the small wire between starter switch and solenoid and check if it is live when ign. on. If it is the switch i faulty.

ok, i've just went outside and pulled the red and white wire from the starter switch. I switched on the ignition and nothing..........

Is it not the starter switch then?

[blue32]

you should try to take off one end of the small wire between starter switch and solenoid and check if it is live when ign. on. If it is the switch i faulty.

Yes, you can try measure this vay ...(not to use the lever... only the ing. switch on) if now it is current to the solenoid ?? then the switch is gone bad...if not?? then the switch is right, (if you have to use the lever and then current flow).

1. The starterswitch is only an "pressbutton on/of switch". - for small current flow.
2. The Solenoid is same...but for big current flow...(small current set it on, working from the insides solenoid).
3. The startlever put the bendix into flywheel...and also push the starterswitch on, (and is only mecanical operated)

Some of the original solenoid has even euqipment as a button underneth, who can set on the solenoid whitout "small current" from ign.... also that is manual holding button and so you can start the dexta with holding this button and press the starterlever...(remember to set the gearstick in freeposition) he he.

Well, I,d tell all this only for you to think, think, and think again... and then you will soon understand all about different current flows

Blue32

[Brian]

Take both wires from the starter switch, switch on, solenoid should not work, motor should not run. Flash the two wires together, (small spark), solenoid should click and motor should run.

That will prove the starter switch.

If motor runs with both wires disconnected when the ignition is switched on and you do not here a click from the solenoid, you have got a live feed to the starter motor from the ignition switch which is bypassing the solenoid. Check that you really do have the wire from the regulator on the battery side of the solenoid not the starter side.

[Bensdexta]

W59D,
I'm wondering if there's something amiss with your wiring loom?
There should only be red wires going to the starter switch, and red & yellow wires to the solonoid. So what's the white wire you mention? Is your loom original, or has it been cobbled togther? PM me if you need a Dexta wiring diag.

[blue32]

Hi, Wee59dexta...some tip for easyer understanding all the wirings on your dexta is to draw up circuit,s (just like the good draw from Brian) becouse it is many circuit,s on hole wirings, so you can start train yourself to draw it to one different circuit on each sheet then.
When you (to an examle) draw your circut for the charging...you will find that it is only two wirings...one from F on regulator to F on dynamo, - and one from D on regulator to D on dynamo...and so on. -(and also an example is to draw up a circuit to headlight..?) The light circuit,s on dexta has three different circuits - one for Main headlight, one for dim-light, and also one cicuit for back winglight. (if you want? you can also put some fuse,s on this) This three circuit,s goes from the lightswitch and you can also draw up for a cicuit from the lamps for eartwiring back to the tractorbody...and so on, ok?
As you look on this you will find also that some tractors has different +(plus) or - (minus) to "hot terminal" and who is working about ecual to the electrical component,s eccept for the dynamo, who has to polarized on to the "hot batteryterminal" and as all in this forum now know...the Dexta with still original Lucas system has minus to "hot batteryterminal.
If you start to Draw your cicuit,s on each sheet...I am sure that you will learn "How to", in a quick way.
Good luck

blue32

[Wee59dexta]

Gents thanks once again for all your help! I am happy to report that the problem was the starter switch! I left work at 6pm and straight into the shed. I joined the wires and by passed the switch and vroom! lol

Luckily I had a switch from the refurb of the previous starter and fitted it to the NEW starter. (I am having no luck with parts, new or second hand)

I wired the lower dash and have a fully working horn, heater switch, and ignition switch. The proofmeter is working and all is well. My Dad is hyappy with her and he has been driving about in her all night.

Its amazing how easy our tractor starts. Very little heater. (I'd just like to add that i've never ever used easy start, hate that stuff)

I then put the rear lift arms and nine hole bar on the rear and the lift WORKS!!!!

The tractor is driving, lifting and we'll be using her tomorrow to bring the link box in for refurb. I'm then going to concentrate on my placement and hope to apply a final coat and clear coat sometime in may for the locasl shows.

I know they'll still be more problems ahead but hopefully we're on the home straight.

I had a talk with the ole man today over a cuppa and we discussed how much this forum has contributed to our restoration. He can't use the internet but he says a big thank you from northern ireland!

We want to put the website name on the tractor, in white, classy signature writing on the bonnet, for our local shows, mainly to make other local enthusiasts aware of what you guys do! So a massive pat on the back gents

If you're ever in Ireland then give us a shout

You'r name will be mentioned in houses you'll never set foot in!

[dexta roadless]

thaty was marvelles news. Congratulations

[Bensdexta]

Gents thanks once again for all your help! I am happy to report that the problem was the starter switch! I left work at 6pm and straight into the shed. I joined the wires and by passed the switch and vroom! lol

Many congrats - your perseverance has paid off well done.

So your NEW starter had a duff switch? I hope you've complained!! Was it correctly adjusted??

[Wee59dexta]

Gents thanks once again for all your help! I am happy to report that the problem was the starter switch! I left work at 6pm and straight into the shed. I joined the wires and by passed the switch and vroom! lol

Many congrats - your perseverance has paid off well done.

So your NEW starter had a duff switch? I hope you've complained!! Was it correctly adjusted??

Ben again my ignorance will show through, set correctly? lol

[Bensdexta]

Ben again my ignorance will show through, set correctly? lol

The starter switch should be set according to the procedure 'To refit pinion and clutch assembly' in the Electrical System workshop manual. The switch needs to be adjusted so the contact closes when the pinion is moved into the starter ring gear, when you press the lever. Incorrect adjustment will cause, either the switch to not operate at all (ie no start), or to operate too soon before the pinion is fully engaged, thus damaging pinion or ring gear.