Floating 3-point Hitch ?

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Bensdexta
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Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

Is there any reason why our 3-point lift arms can't be modified to allow a some relative rotation between implement and tractor?

Modern tractors have a slot system at the bottom of the lift arms to allow a couple of inches vertical float. I don't think that our hydraulics ever applies a download to an implement, so I can't see why it wouldn't work for our oldies. :wink:

If the linkage is rigid, I'm concerned that my newly acquired mounted harrow, a Ransomes THR 1005, may suffer damage to the discs as they roll over rocks on our undulating land.

Here's an example of a modern system on a small tractor, Hitch fixed:
Image

Hitch floating:
Image
Last edited by Bensdexta on Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tom lad
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by tom lad »

hi ben
don't think I'd worry about it to be honest .
I think it will rock / float by itself with the play in the linkage .

what will u run it in ? position set to the lowest ? or quali ?

my MF mounted discs have baskets for more weight .
tom
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Bensdexta
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

tom lad wrote:what will u run it in ? position set to the lowest ? or quali ?

my MF mounted discs have baskets for more weight .
The Ransomes manual for this harrow, which is power matched for the Dexta, '..recommends Quali, but Posi can be used in some conditions..' It doesn't say which hole in the top link rocker. You suggest the lower less sensitive position?

See photos below of my 'new' harrow when I got it. :wink:

As you can see the front discs have taken a beating, particularly the RH ones. Rear discs are rather better, exc one's gone! But again more wear on the RH discs. I guess that Quali will protect the rear gang better than the front, as when the rear gang goes over a big rock, the Quali will lift the hydraulics. But if the front gang goes over a rock, the Quali will respond less.

Unlike my Weaving chain harrow, the disc harrow's headstock doesn't have a for&aft slot for the top link, just a hole, so there's no longitudinal flex between harrow and tractor. I'm thinking that I need to introduce some movement here. Given the harrow's narrow width, that's prob more important than introducing some roll float.

Which MF harrow are you using, how many discs, what's its weight. How does it cope on undulating ground?

It's worth mentioning that I'm advised that round here a trailed harrow copes better over rocks etc than mounted, because there's more flex, but trailed is a pain moving from field to field etc.

Comments appreciated!

Image

Image
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marcusgs
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by marcusgs »

Ben,

Why don't you take the top link off when you get to the field?

That way you have trailed in the field, and mounted for transport..

Best of both worlds :wink:
Mark

Bensdexta
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

Yes that's possible. But then the problem is you can't lift it up at the end of the 'furrow'. Or at least, without the top link, you can only lift the front gang.

Turning without lifting it clear would be bad news as sideloads on linkage would be large. Also tractor might not want to turn! :(

So I think a slot or some form of floating link at the top is in order, like my chain harrow.
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Gavin
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Gavin »

Replace the top link with a chain. Our Bomford Turbotiller has that setup and it allows the machine to follow ground contours whilst still being mounted although not much ground clearance at the back unless the chain is shortened
Fordson Super Dexta, Ford 4610, and Ford 3000

Bensdexta
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

Gavin wrote:Replace the top link with a chain. Our Bomford Turbotiller has that setup and it allows the machine to follow ground contours whilst still being mounted although not much ground clearance at the back unless the chain is shortened
Replace with a chain, the tractor top link or the adjustable stay from harrow head stock to harrow frame? :wink:
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Gavin
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Gavin »

Probably wouldn't matter which one but the turbotiller uses a chain instead of a top link as standard factory spec
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Bensdexta
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

I can see that a chain from the rear extremity of the harrow going direct to the tractor top link pin might work, but as you say the clearance with the hyd raised at the rear will be pretty minimal. Don't think it would work on my discs though as the rear gang will be left trailing, unless I welded on an outrigger out the back to get the chain way back.

So a chain to the head stock seems a better bet. I did this on my chain harrow, but had a problem when the harrow's levelling bars caught on a rock, the whole harrow reared up - alarming! Up with the hyd pronto! :oops:

So for the chain harrow the top link slot is a better bet, then the Quali comes to the rescue if the front catches.

Hopefully the discs wouldn't get caught unless perhaps on a monster anthill, and would just keep rolling along. So a chain is worth a try.
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ford5000y
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by ford5000y »

Bensdexta wrote:
tom lad wrote:what will u run it in ? position set to the lowest ? or quali ?

my MF mounted discs have baskets for more weight .
The Ransomes manual for this harrow, which is power matched for the Dexta, '..recommends Quali, but Posi can be used in some conditions..' It doesn't say which hole in the top link rocker. You suggest the lower less sensitive position?

See photos below of my 'new' harrow when I got it. :wink:

As you can see the front discs have taken a beating, particularly the RH ones. Rear discs are rather better, exc one's gone! But again more wear on the RH discs. I guess that Quali will protect the rear gang better than the front, as when the rear gang goes over a big rock, the Quali will lift the hydraulics. But if the front gang goes over a rock, the Quali will respond less.

Unlike my Weaving chain harrow, the disc harrow's headstock doesn't have a for&aft slot for the top link, just a hole, so there's no longitudinal flex between harrow and tractor. I'm thinking that I need to introduce some movement here. Given the harrow's narrow width, that's prob more important than introducing some roll float.

Which MF harrow are you using, how many discs, what's its weight. How does it cope on undulating ground?

It's worth mentioning that I'm advised that round here a trailed harrow copes better over rocks etc than mounted, because there's more flex, but trailed is a pain moving from field to field etc.

Comments appreciated!

Image

Image
Ouch :cry: , some of the discs are gone!

Both me and my father would agree with you about trailed discs. I have cultivated our field with our ford 5000 and a trailed disc harrow(that came with it) and it was horrible, especially when reversing! That explains why my father kept looking for mounted ones. But it was hard to find one because trailed offset disc harrows is the "trend" here in our area. In fact, someone traded the mounted disc harrow that he used behind his fordson major in exchange for a full set of rear wheel weights for his ford 5000! :shock: :scratchhead: :curse:

PghBill
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by PghBill »

Ben, Just a thought. What if you made a different way of attaching your harrows?
Maybe something on the order of this? Not the best drawing, but I know you are a clever fellow and will get the concept. Harrow would ride up over rocks etc. and could also be lifted with the 3 Pt.
Image

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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

PghBill wrote:Ben, Just a thought. What if you made a different way of attaching your harrows?
Maybe something on the order of this? Not the best drawing, but I know you are a clever fellow and will get the concept. Harrow would ride up over rocks etc. and could also be lifted with the 3 Pt.
Hi Bill,
Yes I think your mod would work. In fact I think it's equivalent to the slotted lift arms in my first pics ^.
Only advantage of slotting the lift arm vs the implement is that it would be available for all implements. I've got two harrows (disc & chain) and am looking for a grass harrow next, so I'm thinking about getting another L H lift arm and modding it with a slot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a slot on one side might be enough, especially for a narrow implement.

BTW, which implements require a fixed 3-Point (ie no float)? Only one I can think of now is a conventional mouldboard plough.

Happy New Year to one and all! :wink:
Bensdexta - 1961 working for a living!

PghBill
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by PghBill »

Ben,
I see your logic with the lift arm when using more than one implement. But a grass or chain harrow shouldn't be effected as much as a disc harrow. By making the slots in the bracket 1/2 the diameter of the disc, the whole front disc could ride up over stones.
The front discs are probably worn more than the rear because in Quali when confronted with an obstacle and the front disc cuts into it before being lifted and the rear disc misses it all together. Or in Posi, the front disc cuts in, but the distance from the attachment point and flex in the frame lets the rear ride up over rocks. A slotted bracket would let you run in either Quali or Posi.
Love kicking ideas around :lol:

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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Kiwi Kev »

or you could replace your lift arms with chains.
Only take 5 mins to change when wanting to disc harrow, then change back.
Have done it this way myself.
Kiwi Kev
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Bensdexta
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

Kiwi Kev wrote:or you could replace your lift arms with chains.
Only take 5 mins to change when wanting to disc harrow, then change back.
Have done it this way myself.
Use short chains, so I can still lift harrow at the end of a 'furrow'? And keep the rigid top link?
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Kiwi Kev »

Bensdexta wrote:
Kiwi Kev wrote:or you could replace your lift arms with chains.
Only take 5 mins to change when wanting to disc harrow, then change back.
Have done it this way myself.
Use short chains, so I can still lift harrow at the end of a 'furrow'? And keep the rigid top link?
The chains can be the same length as the lift arms, and yes, keep the top link so the rear disc stays in the ground more.
Are you discing a clean grass paddock, a grass paddock with rocks & gorse etc, or a ploghed paddock?
Kiwi Kev
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International 784 4WD
& looking at another tractor!

Bensdexta
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Re: Floating 3-point Hitch ?

Post by Bensdexta »

Kiwi Kev wrote:The chains can be the same length as the lift arms, and yes, keep the top link so the rear disc stays in the ground more.
Are you discing a clean grass paddock, a grass paddock with rocks & gorse etc, or a ploughed paddock?
Hi, Typically a grass paddock with embedded rocks. Have been ploughed in the past, but quite a few rocks . We're in the process of burying the bigger rocks, but it'll be a year or two before that's done.
Bensdexta - 1961 working for a living!

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