Buying a Dexta special? in france

[gimiq]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum but have been lurking for a few days

I live in France with my wife and twin 2 year old boys.

Our house sits on 5 acres of rough but fairly flat land and have been looking at getting an old tractor to do some topping and some shifting of loads around.

It will be part work and part hobby.

I saw a 'Dexta Special' being advertised fairly close to me and was hoping you lot could chime in on what to look for as a first time buyer of old tractors and especially this make and model.

One of my main concerns is parts availability and reliability for these. (i am also looking at MF30 but all the ones i have seen are quite far from me)

the price is 2200 euros

description:

1965 Fordson Dexta

1965 fordson dexta special
Good hydraulics runs great
Tipping pipe,lights no carte grise, never been registered

here are the photos:

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63FADABF

https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63FAD35E

https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63FACF81

https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63FAFD24


Any tips in general and specifics on this example would be hugely appreciated. I am going to see it this Saturday

Many thanks,
Gimi

[Emiel]

Hi,

This is a dexta from the years between 61-64 I think. It is a narrow version. Tinwork looks good. Personally I’d preferred a standard track width tractor. If the engine starts good from cold and the clutch and steering is ok there isn’t much to go wrong. Standard Parts are available from breakers and new as well.

Price depends on region.

I would not want a mf 30 or 130. A 35, 135, 65 or 165 cab be a good option imho.

[gimiq]

first thing that jumps out is that it looks like a narrow vineyard version? could be wrong, there is not much on line about the 'special' version put together in Germany.

[gimiq]

Yes I was hoping to get a standard version. But would not be put off completely by a narrow version. And yes I meant to write MF35 not 30. I have been looking for an MF35 but a lot of 30's coming up. or 835's which are apparently the french version of 35's (with less parts availability apparently). Yes MF135 is also on the cards.

Most are too far away from me to be able to take a look at. This dexta turned up not too far away and so have been trying to swot up on it a bit.

Its the 3 cylinder perkins engine I was originally drawn to. I know the MF and the dexta had some variant of that on them with Henry Ford speccing the P3/F3 for the dexta and deviating from the original design etc etc

[gimiq]

i do wonder what the drawbacks of having a narrow version?

potential cons:

less stable
doesn't have quite as nice a stance visually as a wider one

potential pros:

easier to store (i have a relatively small attached barn)

but there must be other factors to consider with a narrow tractor (I don't have a vineyard, nor do I plan on having one )

[Billy26F5]

It doesn't look like a Dexta Special (sold only in Germany with lots of extras including very wide mudguards), but like a very narrow conversion (much narrower than Stormont's Narrow Dexta). A bit expensive for me. I would date it post April 62 but that's about as far as I can manage from these pics as the paint doesn't look original. I would definitely go for it a part from the price but that's just me, depending on what your long term plans are having a narrow tractor can be handy, but you must remember that it is also less stable than a wider one, so if you don't need to use it at minimum track it might be better to widen the wheel track for now as you can always return it to narrower later on. Although it probably isn't a Dexta Special it probably is a rare narrow conversion, which might explain the way it's been advertised, but it can't be a 65 as production of Dexta's finished in September 64 with Major's lasting into October. You'll certainly have more options for parking it and it will be an unusual Dexta to have.
Sandy

[gimiq]

thanks for the replies. It is good to know there is the option making it wider.

Yes 1965 did not make sense to me from my research, like you mentioned, everything I have read suggests production of these stopped in 1964.
I will try getting the price knocked down if possible if it looks like it runs ok.

Apparently it was originally 2700, but that could just be a marketing trick.

It was listed 8 weeks ago, so that could be a little red flag as I would expect it to have sold by now.

it could mean:

a) the price is too high
b) there is potentially something up with it and people with more knowledge on the matter have steered clear upon viewing.

Things I have been told to watch out for:

Check it starts ok from cold, no ether spray used.
No excessive smoke, although to expect some on start up
Check oil is in good condition, not 'milky'
Check the hydraulics can maintain the lift without dropping when under weight i.e. with some 3 point attachments on it.
Lay some cardboard under it to check if and how much oil collects on it after starting it and letting it warm up and idle for a bit.
Turn the steering wheel and see how much play there is in it before the wheels start turning.

[Old Hywel]

Presumably the steering box differs from normal, to allow for the reversed steering arms above the axle.

[gimiq]

I see what you mean Old Hywel. Standard Dexta has them pointing inwards and this has them pointing outward above the front axle.

[Billy26F5]

I would suspect thre rockers are reversed. I don't think it shows signs of having trouble, but I wouldn't want to pay that much. Having said that I've seen lots of much worse looking things for more than 3000 and being sold, so it could just be luck.
It might be a 65 conversion of a 64 Dexta, but I'm just guessing this at the moment.
Dexta's never start very well from cold if they're not heated enough, so don't be surprised if it takes a while to start (you need to press the heater for 40 seconds having pressed the primer once, then as you start turning over press the primer two or three times and it should start soon enough, otherwise it will take far longer), but it should definitely start without ether. If it has white smoke and the coolant is ok, you'll need do do some hard work to get rid of it, as these engines need hard work. Any other kind of smoke needs attending to. There will inevitably be some oil leaks, but as long as you don't need to pour in a lot of oil to keep the level correct I would just live with it untill you need to fix a bigger problem. The steering is very likely to have play, and it's quite a job to fix but as long as it's not too bad you should be ok for now. The hydraulics are the most complicated thing to get going properly and there are always lots of leaks to cause excessive corrections, so it depends on how many corrections you get (the fewer the better, there are supposed to be less than three in two minutes but very few are as good as that) and how that affects the stability.
Sandy

[gimiq]

Cheers for the info sandy.

Will take a look this Saturday,

abit off topic but the other option I see for a similar price range although would take a 6 hour round trip would be this Ford 2000

https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63FA874C

https://scontent-cdt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=63FC0EA7

bigger, not a Dexta, but still blue

advertised for 3000 euros.

described simply as: Ford 2000 restored 47hp 1966 tel [hidden information] transport possible.

3000 would be about the limit i can afford right now. All used vehicles seem to be more expensive in france for some reason. Not sure if it applies to tractors as it does to cars.

These are about the lowest price i can find for something that looks reasonable (albeit to an untrained eye). Heard that many prefer them not to have had a paint job as it can hide a lot.

With me being such a noob at this there's always going to be a big element of rolling the dice I guess.

The other option being looking at newer 2nd hand kubota micro tractors all being at minium around 8k over here and often more. Not money I have all in one go at the moment for what will essentially be being used as a mower. And not the same kind of beauty about it as these older machines

[Billy26F5]

I think you get a better deal from the Dexta as it's cheaper and a more unusual tractor, Brian wasn't as much of a fan of the worldwide range (nor am I!) partly because of the first one he saw start up, which took ages, especially when you're used to a Major starting instantly! Prices do seem to have gone up recently but that's been going on at a lesser pace for a long time, having said that I still think there should be better prices around but it might be more difficult to find.
Sandy

[gimiq]

Prices are probably going up because of noobs like me willing to pay.

I am more drawn to the Dexta and it's closer for viewing anyway. The more I look at it the more enamoured I am with it.

Got to a point in my head where I am willing to take a punt before seeing it , I think the only thing that will put me off now is if the chap selling it whips out a can of ether spray or it's been warmed up before going to see it. Love makes you blind I guess.

To be honest I am expecting a few gremlins to come out once bought, they always do. I don't mind paying a few hundred here and there If I know it will run all the better for it. I know I will probably put more into it then I will ever get back for re-sale value. But if I get a decent service out of it I will still consider it worth it.

I am happy with that initial outlay (even if it is a little above what I should be paying), I will try and get something knocked off it. I should be able to afford parts and labor as and when issues arise, Probably will need to find a few locals who know what they are doing with old tractors for the trickier work, especially initially, but I think that shouldn't be too hard to do in the Charente.

Like i said its part work, part hobby. I think I will enjoy learning the ins and outs of looking after something like this. It's not like my livelihood depends on the tractor functioning all the time and it will be used mainly in the summer when the grass is growing.

The only outcome I would not like is if I put a fair bit in it only to discover something that would mean it's a goner.

I will take some more pictures and videos if possible on Saturday, but barring some major red flags I am pretty much sold.

Next thing is to figure out how to tell if a clutch is in alright nick. I have only used my neighbours Kubota a few times which was a 2009 model, that's the entire extent of my tractor experience. Not even sure what to listen out for or look for on a clutch and when changing gears. But if its repairable at reasonable cost it should be alright.

Really appreciate the time you all have taken to provide some tips.

Will let you know how it goes on Saturday...

Thanks again

[Billy26F5]

Clutch trouble can often be the wrong free play (3/4") and also that the gears clash when you try to select them, If it's a live clutch it's much more complicated, but we'll get to that if necessary, all you need to know now is that with the clevis pin in the short position the gears and PTO should't clash. I wouldn't be put off by it being warm already when you go and see it, especially if you'll be using it only in the summer as it's not such a big problem then (and Dexta's aren't great starters anyway, particularly if they're not heated properly).
Sandy

[mathias1]

The dexta is looking good, to me the priceseems fine too. Goodluck tomorrow

[gimiq]

ok so saw the Dexta today.

Phone died so couldn't get a video or more photos.

Hydraulic lift was ok moved smoothly and held in the raised position with a large rear bucket on it, don't know if that would have been heavy enough to present lift problems.

It has the Minimec fitted to it.

Double clutch, live pto. Drove it around and brakes seemed ok, clutch seemed ok but first time I have ever used one like it, so who knows.
There was some grinding noise when changing some of the gears (like getting it into first took a couple attempts), didn't know what to make of that since my friends 2009 Kubota does similar. Gear sticks seemed in good condition.

Rims seemed good but the tyres had cracks in between the treads. and a split on left hand side rear tire. So they will probably need replacing at some point. Valves seemed solid when giving them a wiggle.

Getting in to second from first it was fine, no noise, went straight in.

Exhaust when running was clear the whole time, a little puff of thin white smoke on start. Was expecting more to be honest

Oil dipstick looked pretty dark. Don't think filters have been changed in a while.

Owner claims to have had it for a year and has no use for it. Claimed he has two petrol Fergusons and he is a "Ferguson man" and if he was going to do one up he would rather do those up.

He said he used it for topping and moving stacks of wood. The original photos posted show it attached to the wood splitter I believe, which shows as sold in his facebook market place history.

He said he bought it along with lots of other equipment when he found it in someones barn along with a PTO driven wood splitter and other equipment, when on a job.

Proof meter had ~8640 hours on it, but he said with the age of it cant be right and must of been replaced at some point.
Proof meter looked like it was functional when driving it.
Throttling seemed to work as expected.

Fan and fan belt seemed ok.

Rubber tubing looks like it could do with replacing for the radiator

He thinks it had a paint job early 2000's.

Didn't notice any welds on the axles, engine block or 3 point linkage arms.

Rubbers worn and split on the front axle joints and steering arm joints.

Steering took about 2- (max 3) inches before engaging the wheels. Didn't veer off when driving and letting go of the steering.

Throttle up and down sounded ok to me and no smoke whatsoever on exhaust when moving it up and down.

Now for the obvious bad parts:

Water leaking from the front and collecting in the frame under the radiator. Didn't seem to come from the radiator itself but the connections, he claimed it was from the water pump? water didn't look hot when it came out.

Couldn't really look in the radiator fluid because the hose bends under the bonnet so couldn't really see into it.

Fuel tank had some rust in the bottom when looking in with a torch, wiped finger around the top inside round fuel cap and finger came out with a little brown. but not as much as i was expecting it.

Primer pump didn't work and didn't see a cold start. Seemed to start ok the three times we started it, but it would have warmed up by then.
Don't think heating element worked for the manifold?

Temp gauge was non functional missing connection from the gauge to the thermostat?
He claimed to have used it through summer and didn't overheat but obviously not much you can do with a claim like that.

He came out and said that he used a pump of gas (ether) to start it first time but that it ran fine after it. With the missing pump not sure how cold start would work, heard of syringe of diesel but he seemed like the type of person to take the easy option and be done with it.

He grew up on farms in Scotland with Dextas or Super Dexta (can't remember which) for working slurry or something he claimed.

He acknowledged it wasn't the wider german special although the bonnet had the sticker of a Dexta special painted over. probably a doner bonnet? But makes the paint job a little suspicious since you would expect someone to remove that before painting over it if it was a proper job.

I liked it and it drove well. But the ether cold start and the water leak issue without being able to see the temp gauge especially were downers.

How much damage could he have done to it using ether for last year on cold starts? is that a complete no?

I think given the price being on the high side like you mentioned you guys would probably give it a wide berth.

Looking online you can get the newer primer pump set up which taps into return line:
https://old20tractorparts.com/fuel-syst ... 0206k.html

Remaining real concern is whatever was going on with water up the front, unable to judge what was going on with the temp and obviously him taking the ether cold start route as his work around for the broken primer.

Temperature over here was around 5-7 degrees C when I looked at it.

He seemed pretty forthcoming with the problems with it, no doubt there will be more hidden behind the ones discussed.

On a scale of 1-10 how daft would I be to take a punt? Im willing to put in 1500 euros within the next year to repair the issues mentioned, if repairable, since that is what I was looking at for a measly ride on mower (3700ish) that would not be up to task any way.

I didn't get the impression that it could not be put right if the starting system was renewed but I cannot judge how much damage would have been done by the ether though.

So much to think about when viewing, it's pretty full on. Should of taken photos and videos, damn it

[Emiel]

Leaking water is probably the pump. Not a difficult thing to change. Sounds all reasonable to me but I would negotiate down the price.

One or two times ether won’t kill the tractor.

[Billy26F5]

The hours could be right if you remember that you'd need to add 10000 or even 20000 to the number shown, that you can tell by what the pedals look like. Rubbers are always suspect for replacement, so no surprises here. The coolant leak could be from the pump or from a cracked hose, and I'm more inclined to think it's a cracked filler hose as you are supposed to see coolant when you remove the filler cap. Not a lot you can do about rust in the fuel tank except clean it out, which is quite a big job as the tank has to come off. The primer and heater need to be checked. Don't use the MF system as it's much more complicated to set up and get working; If there was a tap on the manifold it should be in the open position when using the primer and closed at all other times, it's also worth checking the heater wiring as the heater should work easily enough. The temp gauge was probably removed for painting and not treated as a capillary type is supposed to be as too many people think it's electric and snap the pipe, it is repairable but quite complicated. The bonnet is definitely not original, the Dexta Special is quite different compared to this narrow conversion. If it started ok it shouldn't be in too much trouble, as the ether addiction can become almost total. I would try to get a better price but I would go for it, it's an unusual conversion and it should be easy to put right.
Sandy

[gimiq]

ok, in for a penny in for a pound. It's mine.

Proper photos and videos to follow. Then we can really see in what condition it's in. It arrives this afternoon, got it down to 2000, not as much as i would of liked but if I can make it right for 1000-2000 over the next two years I will consider it a success. Looking at the market in france it's hard to find something decent for less than 5000 euros. So a grand here or there doesn't make much of a difference to me considering the alternative was essentially a chinese ride on

Thanks for all the pointers. Much appreciated.

Speak soon, no doubt

[gimiq]

Here is some starter photos

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... c8yKuBoVaX

This is open to access and comment on for anyone who has the link

The fuel supply tap next to the primer seems to have a pin in it to prevent it being turned...

I dont think it looks like the original type of tap

do I remove it. Or is it there for a reason?

The photos with cardboard underneath show the only leakage i can see reaching the ground after being sat there for a couple of hours. Some diesel and some engine oil it looks like.

Simms looks wet, not sure if that is normal

Then there is a photo showing the collected coolant fluid? From the leak from the front collecting on the metal underneath.

The plan is to park it in my poly tunnel to help mitigate any forth coming cold weather and keep it dry, until I can build a small hangar or put it in the barn

[Old Hywel]

The ‘hair grip’ clip on the fuel tap is to prevent the inner part being accidentally unscrewed. Half the handle has snapped off.

[gimiq]

I have added some videos of the engine running to the google drive.

Squeaking coming from the front fan/belt assembly. The fan is turning much faster than shown in the video. I think the frame rate doesn't capture the actual speed its turning at.

The engine sound gets interrupted by the wind a bit. I wouldn't be able to tell you if its knocking to be honest. Sounds like old tractor to me and quite rough .

Maybe you will be able to tell better.

Had to start it to get it into the poly tunnel to keep it dry and hopefully minimise any cold weather effects. Who knows on a sunny but cold day might make it easier to start than being outside. Its gets warm in there on a sunny day even in cold weather. Will cover it with a coloured tarp in hotter weather so doesn't get too hot. At least until I get proper storage sorted.

The bottom front radiator hose has a crack in it. Thats at least one place there is a leak at the front that can be easily fixed

Next steps:

Chuck the ether can away
Read all the posts about the dexta on this forum
Figure out where the serial numbers are
Get more familiar with the operators manual and workshop manual.
Replace all radiator hoses.
Figure out when the fuel tap is open. Turning it goes from stiff to loose to stiff again.
The manual pump itself looks like it could actually be working, not sure will investigate
Figure out how to sort out the temperature gauge and test/fix/replace thermostat.
Replace all filters and oil.
Probably replace the water pump.
Figure out whats going on with the heating element as it doesn't seem to be working.
Check battery and replace if necessary.
See what else needs replacing with the priming cold start system (hoping that it can work just someone has been lazy resorting to starting fluid)

See it if I can start it on a warm day without ether.

Not use it till I have done all the above.

[Emiel]

Nice tractor. Fuel tap is the right one.

[Billy26F5]

Runs nicely, not a perfect runner but very few are. From the look of the pedals that could be 18421.5 hours, but it's not easy to see if you're not there sometimes. Looks like a relitively late 64, the engine number is visible in one of the pics of the minimec (the fifth one in the link) and is one of the very last Dexta's, as most were Super Dexta's by that time. In the tenth pic the block casting code is visible, I can't see the month letter but it's the 7th day of that month in 64. In the pic of the brake pedals you can see the gearbox casting code dated at 20 May 64. The fuel tap is identical to Davie's (which is also original) you've even got the rubber round the primer that davie doesn't have, the tap valve is slightly damaged but it's only an inconveniance. Keep it unscrewed (normal thread) unless you're fidling with the fuel system as it will prolong the life of the o-ring that will eventually cause a leak there sooner or later. The heater looks ok but remove it to test and see if it glows, I can't see if there's a manifold tap but I would remove the pipe at the manifold and put some bowl of sorts under it and pump the primer a few times and see if anything comes out, this should sort the heater and primer. The temp gauge has as I suspected been ruined, there are several options here but in all cases you'll need to buy something, see this: https://mossmotoring.com/lab-coat-lessons/. Always good to do a service as then you know where you stand with oils and filters. Don't do anythinkg to the water pump or thermostat until you can see for sure that they're not working, when you're replacing the hoses it would be good to remove the temp gauge bulb below the thermostat (square bolt head visible in the tenth pic) and the temp gauge to see what you've got so you can get the most suitable solution. Make sure you get a reasonably big battery.
Reading all posts is a lot of work!
Sandy

[gimiq]

great info thanks everyone , will do some investigating and see what i come up with...