3000 hydraulics

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dhep72
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3000 hydraulics

Post by dhep72 »

hi has any body got tips on setting up the hydraulics on a 1970 3000

thanks

Brian
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by Brian »

Hydraulic Adjustments

Ford 2000 Draft control spring. The spring should just turn with the finger and thumb of one hand. If it is tight turn the yoke in a counter clockwise direction, too loose, in a clockwise direction.

Ford 3000, 4000. With the spring housing removed from the tractor, noe the distance between the top face of the housing and the front spring seat. Protrution should be 0.000” to 0.010”. This distance is adjusted by shims on the front spring seat.
Reassemble the housing onto the lift and screw the yoke in until all free play is eliminated.

Internal Draft Control Linkage.

Ford 2000. Place the selector lever in the Draft Control poaition. Place the lift arms in the fully raised position.
Place the main control lever 2” from the top stop. Measured on the outside of the quadrant retainer.
Adjust the turnbuckle on the control valve to give 0.144” (3.55 mm) from the end of the control valve to the front cover face of the ram cylinder.

Ford 3000, 4000. Place the selector lever in the Draft Control position. Place the lift arms in the fully raised position.
Place the lift control lever 4 3/16” from the top stop of the quadrant measured on the outside of the quadrant retainer.
Adjust the control valve turnbuckle to give 0.200” (5.08 mm) from the end of the control valve to the front face of the ram cylinder.

Position Control Adjustment.

Ford 2000 Place the selector lever in Position Control. Place the lift arms at the bottom of their travel. Place the control lever at the bottom of the quadrant until it rests on the stop.
Adjust the length of the Position control rod until the control valve is 0.200” (5.08 mm) from the front face of the ram cylinder.

Ford 3000. 4000. Place the selector lever in Position Control. Place the lift arms at the bottom of their travel. Place the control lever at the bottom of the quadrant until it rests on the bottom stop.
Adjust the length of the Position control rod to obtain 0.200” (5.08 mm) from the end of the control valve to the front cover face of the ram cylinder.

Note. During service a number of changes were made to the control valve to reduce “juddering”, some of these involved placing a metal plug in the end of the control valve. This will affect the adjustments quoted.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian

shepp
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by shepp »

I am currently trying to sort out an issue with one of my 3000's hydraulic lift. The problem was that in position control, from a fully lowered position as the control lever was moved incrementally up the quadrant the linkage would rise in small steps in response until the lever was about halfway up the quadrant and the linkage was about half raised. After that as the lever was moved a little further the linkage would go into a continuous rise until it was fully raised, the position of the lever made no difference.

I removed the hydraulic cover and found that the pin that runs on the cross shaft cam was worn nearly 40% through, so I replaced that with a new 5/16" hardened dowel pin. I looked at the cam on the rockshaft arm and that appeared to be in good shape, but to be sure I sent for a new rockshaft arm off Anglo Agriparts. When it arrived the cam profile was very different, it was about the same as the original at the lowest point of the cam but the highest point of the cam on the new arm was considerably more than the original arm, far far more than could have worn off the old arm.

I fitted the new rockshaft arm and tried to set up the draft and position control linkage as per Brian's instructions above and as per the manual but there was no chance of being able to do that, the cam lift with the linkage arms lowered was simply far too high to be able to set the spool valve in position control.

I have re-fitted the original rockshaft arm and set the linkage up for firstly draft and then position control as per the specifications, and watched the action of the mechanisms as the control lever is moved up the quadrant bit by bit and the linkage arms are raised manually bit by bit accordingly so that the spool valve returns to the neutral position. But I can see that the issue will still be there. What happens as the lever is moved up the quadrant and the lift arms are manually raised accordingly is that when the lever is about halfway up and the lift arms are about halfway up accordingly, the pivot point of the spool valve actuating lever moves OFF the end of the spring loaded position control rod and ONTO the spring loaded draft control swivel, so that as the lift arms then rise the cam on the rockshaft bracket has no effect and the lift arms will continue to rise until the lift piston contacts the stop pin on the spool control arm and moves the spool valve to the neutral position. It is at this point, when the control lever is about halfway up the quadrant, that the operating shaft that runs into the lift cover from the control lever goes "over centre".

The main draft control spring is set properly, nothing appears to be bent or twisted, it is just that when the control lever is halfway up and the linkage halfway raised the swivel point for the spool valve operating lever moves from the spring loaded position control rod to the spring loaded draft swivel, and the draft swivel spring is a strong one which does not compress easily so that the spool valve control lever HAS to pivot on the virtually fixed draft swivel which puts the spool valve into continuous lift until the lift piston contacts the stop pin on the spool valve control lever.

Anyone got any ideas or come across this issue before?? There is not much on Youtube apart from a French posting. I have tried setting the draft system up with the control lever at higher positions up the quadrant such as about 2 inches from the top quadrant stop nick and about half an inch from it as per the Dexta and then setting the position control - these settings do give a bit more leeway on the position control before the lift goes into continuous rise but not much. I have tried setting position control with the lift arms fully lowered and the control lever up to 2 inches off the bottom quadrant stop which also helps but not enough.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

John b
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by John b »

I'm no hydraulics expert Shepp, but if the cam is worn on the rockshaft at it's upper end would this cause your problem, not putting enough pressure on the pin to stop the lift? Like i said i'm no expert, just trying to come up with ideas!
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

shepp
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by shepp »

Hi John
Wear on the cam will have some effect on the setup but there should still be enough scope within the adjustments to compensate for that and adjust it out. What puzzles me is how different the new rockshsft arm cam is to the original cam, unless it is just a case of a crap quality spurious part as is often the case, but there is absolutely no way that the linkage can be set with the new rockshsft arm installed. I was wondering if anyone else has had experience of fitting a new rockshsft arm and if so who did they buy it from and how did they find it? In the UK there seems to be only two suppliers who now list this item, namely Anglo Agriparts and SJ Spares selling QTP parts. There is nothing now listed in Sparex catalogue or in Agriline or in the Emmark catalogue although I might give them a ring as they can be very helpful. There are one or two suppliers in the USA but their illustrations look to be the same as Anglo Agriparts and QTP use which unfortunately do not show the cam profile so it may just be the one manufactured part that is common to all suppliers. The original cam still has machining marks that can be seen over some of the cam surface so I assume it cannot be excessively worn.

The French postings on Youtube consist of a number of video clips at various stages of a dismantling and rebuild process of a lift cover but they are run at high speed and with information snips written in French and it is 58 years since I did my French O level! But from what I can gather from the clips I think the contributor must have had similar issues to the ones I have - I will have to have another go at understanding the clips.

Another point of uncertainty is where is the distance is measured from when setting the control lever position before setting up the draft control - the I & T manual says from the top quadrant stop and shows it measured in the illustration from the little tag that sticks out behind the quadrant, however for setting position control the manual says put the control lever down to the bottom quadrant stop and shoes it in the illustration as being totally down hard up to the bottom of the quadrant. So is the top quadrant stop the little tag or is it hard up to the top of the quadrant which is nearly two inches past the little tag? Unfortunately Brian's description does not specify which.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

John b
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by John b »

I found this where it says the I&T manual gives a different measurement to the Ford manual. Also read about having to build the cam surface up with weld and re-profile it due to an original not being available but i can't remember where i saw it
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi- ... &th=618988
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

shepp
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by shepp »

I have checked my other 3000 and the 4000, and I know the hydraulics on the 4000 both for draft and position control are spot on as it ploughs brilliantly on the draft control and position control is smooth and accurate throughout the whole travel of the control lever. If the friction pad spring is backed off it is possible to sense when the draft swivel and position control rod come into play as the control lever is moved. In draft setting the draft control swivel comes into contact much further up the quadrant on the 4000 than the settings specified in the I & T workshop manual, and in position control you can feel the linkage system contact the position control rod and then later the draft control swivel as the control lever nears the top of the quadrant.

I will check the Dextas and the Super tomorrow but what I am intending doing is setting the turnbuckle so that the draft control swivel comes into play at the same point on the control lever quadrant as it does on the 4000, then set the position control rod to give the spool valve the specified 0.2 inch recessed below the body face, put it back together and see how it is.
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

John b
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by John b »

Sounds like a good plan. Given the problem you describe originally it would make sense that the contact should occur higher up the quadrant, keep us posted with the results
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

shepp
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by shepp »

Well it took quite a bit of figuring out but basically apart from renewing the cam pin what I have done is to put two thin washers behind the circlip that holds the flanged tubular spacer that compresses the draft control spring on the draft control forked rod and on which the draft control swivel moves backwards and forwards. This has set the swivel point slightly further back before the draft control swivel contacts the flange and meets the spring resistance. I then set the threaded control valve turnbuckle so that at the point when both the draft control swivel contacts the flange and the control valve pushrod tightens against the control valve the hydraulic operating lever is 6 inches from the top of the operating quadrant - that is from the full top of the quadrant not from the little "tang" that sticks out about 2 inches from the top of the quadrant, this is as per my 4000 is set. If the hydraulic control lever is then moved further up the quadrant to the point where the end of the spool is 0.2 inches below the spool housing (as per the manual) in draft control the lever then measures just over 4 inches from the absolute top of the quadrant - so the drawing in the I & T manual which tells you to measure 4.25inches from the little tang (and not the top of the quadrant) must be incorrect!! After setting the draft control I then put the selector in position control and put the control lever about 2.5 inches off the bottom of the quadrant (not at the absolute bottom of the quadrant that the manual tells you to do) then set the link arms to fully lowered position and then adjusted the position control rod until the valve spool was 0.2 inches below the spool housing as per the manual.

Re- assembled with fingers crossed and hey presto, the position control works perfectly throughout the whole movement arc of the control lever with lift starting when the lever is about 2.5 inches off the bottom of the quadrant and reaching maximum lift when the lever is about 1.5 inches off the tang. In draft control the linkage starts to lift when the lever us about 4 inches off the top of the quadrant so that should be working fine.

Trial and error!
1946 E27N, 1952 Major Diesel, 1959 Power Major, 1962 Dexta, 1962 Super Dexta, 1963 Super Dexta NP, 1964 Super Major NP, 1965 Super Dexta 3000, 1966 Major 4000, 1967 3000 PF, 1994 5640,plus Basildon built NH.

John b
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Re: 3000 hydraulics

Post by John b »

Fair play Shepp, you have got some patience! Well worked out, glad you got it sorted
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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