Ford 4000 4 x 4 Steering knuckle

[WayneB]

Fellow in North Carolina USA (Martin Smathers)
needs left steering knuckle outer assembly. It has the tie rod to the front of the diff carrier.
Left steering knuckle part # on it is 604343
Serial # of his tractor is A233140, he believes tractor was made in Belgium. Tractor model is D10140. believes it is a 1972 model.

My research is telling me the tractor has a Roadless conversion, with a Selene front axle. I am told the Selene axle is a re-engineered 2.5Ton GMC front axle.

I have contacted: http://www.roadless.co.uk/

Can anyone help find the left steering knuckle part for Martin?

Wayne

[WayneB]

Martin is working with Brett at Ruakura Motors. The left steering knuckle has the top bearing mount area broken out. Apparently a previous owner had installed the top knuckle bearing with only one bolt, as other holes were stripped. It does not appear to be weld-able.
If anyone know of where one of these axles are; please respond. Martin would like to get his tractor back up.

Ruakura Motors Tractorparts Ltd <brett@tractorparts.co.nz>

Hi Martin.
Yes I did get the pictures, I have the cross kits sorted for this, I'm trying to come up with an H yoke for you.

Thanks Brett.

[Kiwi Kev]

Wayne
I use Brett myself for alot of my major parts.(He's a Kiwi as well)
Yep, good service, and good prices.
Kiwi Kev

[WayneB]

Any help would be appreciated. Brett told Martin on August the 8th he had the pictures of the damaged Knuckle, and was looking. For Martin, that must seem like forever ago.
Left knuckle has the area broken out where the spindle bearing bolts in. The irony, I believe, is that the front axles are mirrors of American GM World War II trucks. I am told the amphibian ducks and other duece and half had these axles.

Hi Wayne. (Brett)
This appears to be a Selene axle, but a different style to what we have, however the inner axle shafts may be the same, double UJ type with open swivel housings. What do you require, we may be able to help. (Martin needs steering knuckle adn spiders.)

[WayneB]

Martin contacted me via eMail again. Still needs the L/F steering knuckle.

[WayneB]

As of now, despite numerous contact attempts, Martin is no closer to putting this tractor together than day one. In the end, the specialty places overseas from US desire to provide U-joints only and the actual need part - the steering knuckle NO WAY. He found U-Joints in Columbus Ohio (@ $120+ EACH).
Martin will have a welder in Tennessee repair the old knuckle. So the final task is the seals. I gave Martin the contact information for several bearing and seal shops in the south east US and he's on the trail.
This scenario could be my 68 Ford 4000 4 X4, so I am eager to source these parts with Martin. Parts are out there, if we know what to asks for.


We both talked at length about cheap grease. First thing I did with mine was pressure wash it turning knuckles for access, and bought some of the good grease, the red Molybenim stuff. I pushed all that old junk out and washed again, and regreased. Strange thing. Grease stays in now, parts don't get all nasty and there is less need for grease. The old GMC type Selene axles on these tractors are well designed and all greasing is by fitting. I hope I have many years ahead on mine.


Wayne

[WayneB]

Both our tractors have the same axle, however Martin's tractor has the tie-rod to the front (as originally converted) and with mine a previous owner has completely torn my front end down, put left knuckle on right and right on left and put the tie rod to the rear on my tractor. The tie rod is shaped to clear differential housing. Knuckles are not identical, but may be reversed. Mine is well re-designed, so I will leave it like that.

I have a loader on my tractor and the front end quite often gets over 3000 pounds in the bucket and on the forks. Before I filled my rear tires I had my rear end get light and spin sideways many times. Front wheel drive front end makes for a great loader tractor.

Wayne

[WayneB]

I have been regularly corresponding with Martin about his tractor, and a few phone calls. Tony Jacobs has also been working this issue additionally.

All this time my tractor has never had a problem with the front end. All I have ever done is grease and clean it.

This weekend, I was moving gravel (8 foot wide loader bucket) and moving probably 2500-3000 lbs per load some 500-700 yards. My right wheel wabbled, like a steering tie rod was wearing. I stopped and immediately checked it out. Tie rod was fine. I lay down and looked intently at that axle. And what do you know? The left steering knuckle bottom knuckle bolts were loose, two had fallen out, and the roll-guide pin was drooped. So I backed the tractor 500 yards to work on it, put 'er up on bucket for a jack. Remove the left wheel, grabbed a loose bolt to search for replacement. HHHHHMMMMM? METRIC bolt?
Found four identical metric bolts and lock washers, sprayed out the thread-holes and tightened everything back up. Torqued bolts to 90FT LBs. Whether that is the right torque, I don't know, no axle procedures are available, which is the purpose of this post, I'm looking for INFO.

Later, Tony Jacobs and I are corresponding, and we agree these axles are not GMC, not SAE, but are Schindler axles. Several British magazines indicated County installed some Schindler axles because the turning circle was better (price might have been better too).

So Martin, myself and now Tony Jacobs are looking for parts availability for Schindler axles.

No Selene or GMC, but Schindler axles --- METRIC.

Any information?

Wayne

[Brian]

Schlinder supplied a lot of axles direct to Ford as well as County and Roadless. Ford were marketing an axle through the dealers for retro-fitting. Schlinder have (of course) been out of production for many years.

You might try the new County owners over here, or J. Bownes Ltd, Winsford, Cheshire. www.roadless.co.uk or another possibility is Nick Battell at Old Twenty Parts who was involved with his father Nick in importing Schlinder axles for a tractor they built as a company called Farm Tractor Drives.

Think you may also find that Schlinder and Selene became the same company.

[WayneB]

Tony Jacobs spoke with Mark Osborne owner of County Commercial Cars and who told him that they did not use Schindler axles or any other brand of axle with open axle joints or ever use a Transfer case that bolted to the side of the axle housing. County were always the gear type that went between the transmission and the rear axle. They were made by Farm Tractor Drives (UK) Limited of Derby, England, Brian as you said.

I sent an email to Nick and am waiting a reply.

Brian, I am flooded with facts that conflict and am rapidly coming up with no real info on the axles.

FACTS I know.
FACT - the Axle is metric
FACT - it is so simple and robust - it would take serious damage to ruin it. For example a bolt falls out and is not immediately corrected.
FACT - with exception of grease and gear oil, no parts are consumable. With exception of lacing wire.
FACTS: U-joint inside hub knuckles when installed properly are laced in with wire.
FACT : Have parts listing on transfer side gear cases and emergency brake parts from Ford
VOID -listing of Schindler axle parts
VOID -source for Schindler axle parts
VOID -repair procedures and torque values for Schindler axles

[Brian]

Wayne,

Have you considered the possibility that you don't have a County? As I said in the earlier post, Ford dealers sold, with Fords approval, Schindler axles for retro fitting.

[WayneB]

Correct, we do not have County Conversion.
They were made by Farm Tractor Drives (UK) Limited of Derby, England, Brian as you said.

What that makes it, other than quite an awesome tractor remains a void in FACT.

Other than finding loose bolts, and fixing them, I have never had a problem with mine. I have put over 700 hours on it, much with the front loader.

Martin's tractor is still broken, and he is still looking for parts.

Wayne

[Mike Kuscher]

Wayne,

Google Old 20 parts company (Derby UK) and ask to speak to Nick Battel. Nice helpful guy, particularily if he can sell something

Or, of course Follow this link...
http://www.old20.com/

That's Nick in the middle top photo.

[Brian]

Schindler bought out Selene in the 1970's.

Selene had been building axles for many years and were the people who made the GMC based axles for the early 4wd that were eventually sold by Roadless. These were the Manual system.

Schindler sold axles to Ford and through Farm Tractor Drives but eventually moved out of the agricultural market in 1985. They are still in business making railway rolling stock, lifts and escalators world wide. Remember the film "Schindlers List"?

Your axle is possibly an EL65 which was for tractors up to 70hp.

[Mike Kuscher]

Brian,

Some pictures I have seen, of conversions to these axles, end up showing that the tractor is higher at the front than the back.
Example: Front cover of this months T&M.

I thought this was what was known as 'Schindlers List'

[Brian]

No Mike, that only happens when the halfshaft breaks!!!!

[WayneB]

Brian,
I bought this tractor in 2004, and beyond a thorough cleaning, followed by a thorough lube with moly grease and the loose bolt issue in November 2008, this axle has been problem free.

However I understand statistics and probability, and in time I will be where Martin is; needing parts.

At this rate, if I am lucky, I will fall onto a Schinder axle for parts.
Or NOT.

How to help Martin remains a void in fact and contact. The help and information is and has been very helpful.

Thanks. Any help is appreaciated.

Wayne

[WayneB]

Brian,
BTW: my tractor is still fine. Another more than 100 hours.

The internet simply has no information on Schinder axles or model EL65. Last spoke with Martin a few months back, and his knuckle is yet fixed. Don't know all details. Of course I can get the corporated Schindler elevator page, that says they did make tractor axles, also found that JCB backhoes also used this axle, as well MF tractors. In the meantime there are four other broken Ford schindler axle guys who have contacted me

So of course I look for JCB and MF front axle listings. So far nothing.
Ron Mann in the UK said he had drawings of Schindler axles and would provide. That was half a year ago Ron@willcocks.co.uk

I routinely check the torque on my knuckes, and lube it, and have replace the Gear Oil. And use it. And use it. The guys with broken axles are still broke as far as I know .

I continue to look for info. Optimistic, but yet no luck.

Patience.

Wayne

Schindler bought out Selene in the 1970's.

Remember the film "Schindlers List"?

Your axle is possibly an EL65 which was for tractors up to 70hp.