Ford 8000 engine knock

[Martijn]

Hello,

I have a question about our Ford 8000 tractor.
We've got a Ford 8000 tractor for years now. It is fitted with a turbo from a ford 9600 tractor and it performs well.
But we also have a problem with it.
When we bought it, 12 years ago it had a knock in the engine.
We used it for years and nothing broke down on it, so we suspect it isn't anything serious, but it's getting more and more irritating.
Maybe somebody has got a hint for this what to look out for.
We already striped the engine a few years ago.
We changed a timing gear then, since one of the teeth was missing.
We removed all the pistons, the rings were fine, and also the piston pen.
Crankshaft was also in good order.
Fuel pump and injectors were tested and nothing was wrong with it.
But unfortunately, the engine knock is still there.
The knock is clearly hearable, whether the engine is hot or cold, low revs or high, heavy loaded or not, it is always there.
There isn't a location on the tractor were the knock is louder, so it's very difficult to locate the problem. Even on the back end you can hear this sound.
The former owner replaced the clutch one time since it was worn out. He fitted a heavier clutch witch tractorpuller use a lot.
Maybe the clutch creates the knock. We don't know.

Can somebody perhaps give me a hint, were to look for possible causes?
Any help would be very welcome.

Greetings,
Martijn
Holland

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Martijn,

I had a Triumph 2500 many years ago that developed a rather loud knock. The cause was very surprising, a loose front pulley! Any movement on the crank shaft causes a big bang as it hits the key. A new pulley fixed it straight away. Might be worth a look as you have already checked all the other things I can think of.

Regards, Frank.

[Brian]

Cam shaft?

Loose flywheel, although I would have expected that to have fallen off by now!

[Martijn]

Thank you people, for the advises about my problem.

Next thursday a Ford New Holland mecanic that we know personally is coming to listen to the noise.
I will certainly investigate the loose crankshaft pulley. That's not so difficult to do.
Loose flywheel? Since it's been running for years now, I also don't think that's the problem. But if the problem isn't solved differently, I think we'll split the tractor to have a look at it.
A lot of work but worth a try.

Please if you think of another possible cause let me know..

Greetz Martijn

[Emiel]

Hello Martijn,

Is the knocking related to the engine speed, in other words, do you get more knocks when speeding up?

A client of my father had a 7810 coupled to a cow feed mixer. It knocked for years, sounded like some problem with injectors or fuel pump. Engine has been tested and partly stripped sometimes. Never found anything causing the problem. After everything was worn out the tractor is sold, still knocking.

Regards
Emiel

[Martijn]

Hey people,

I think we have found the problem...
A New Holland mecanic visited us today and listened to the engine.
He asked us to start the engine with the engine stop cable pulled out.
The engine cranked over without starting and then we heard the knocking sound aswell.
It seems like the pistons hit the cilinder head slightly. This could cause serious damage ofcourse...
Although the tractor has been used for the last 14 years with this knock, it's amazing we didn't blew the engine.
We think a wrong head gasket has been once fitted. It looks like its very thin. Less than 1 milimeter..
Does anybody know what's the correct thickness for a head gasket for a Ford 8000?
We will remove the head this week. Hopefully there's not much damage to the pistons en conrods. We'll find out...
I will give an update when we know more..

Greetz,
Martijn

[Pascal]

Hi Martijn,

I hope you found the solution and don't have much damage on the engine!
Good luck

[Martijn]

Hey Pascal,

We haven't found the problem yet. The pistons don't seem to hit the cilinder head (with the head gasket fitted there is still about 1,2 mm play between the piston head en cilinder head. There is no damage on the head nor on the pistons.
When the head was off, and we turned the engine with the starter moter the knocking sound was gone. When we fitted the head again including the injectors the sound was there again.
Next we removed the fuel pump and found out the camshaft in the fuel pump has a bend in it of about 4 mm. This shouldn't be there so the pump will be replaced or repaired. But without the fuel pump fitted the knocking sound is still there. Tonight we will remove the gear from the camshaft. Maybe then we can invistigate if the sound comes from the big ends of the crankcase or if it comes from the camshaft. Next thing will be removing the sump and check the bearings. A few years ago we checked these and then they were fine, but the sound was there aswell. The more we invistigate, the more we realise that it's gonna cost a lot of money...
I will keep you all posted...

Greetings,
Martijn

[super6954]

Hi
I am wondering whether the problem is the small end / wrist pin bushes in the top of connecting rods. it seems from your tests that the only time it does it is when the head is on and the only thing to change sounds like compression or no compression with the head off. if those bushes had failed they would knock and the same if the pin was loose in the piston .
Regards Robert

[Martijn]

hey,

New update:
Last week we found out that the sound comes from the clearence between the pistons and cilinder.
So this means the engine is just worn. There was no evident play in the wrist pin bushes.
We sent the engine to a company for complete refurbishment. Probably new pistons, cilinders, piston rings. Who knows it needs even more work to bring it in proper shape.
Buying a used replacement engine would be cheaper I think. But these engines usually did a lot of hours so most of them are worn.
At least now we will get a decent engine..

Greetings,
Martijn

[Pascal]

Hi Martijn,

I am glad you found the problem at last.
Too bad you will have to spend quite some money to fix it.

But think about it the bright side: long after you have forgotten the costs, you will still enjoy the lovely sound of the
6 cylinder orchestra!

Please let us know, when you have mounted the engine again.
Some pictures would be great!

[Martijn]

Thank you Pascal for the usefull comment. You are so right, the sound of a healthy 6 cilinder engine will make us forget the costs.
We made a list with parts that need replacing to get the engine in good order. We decided to do it properly so the list is long:
new pistons
new piston rings
engine rebore
all new bearings
new wrist pin bushes
skimming the block en head
new valves including seats
new valve guides
new valve springs
new oil pump
new injectors
new timing gears (some damaged teeth found)
new seals and gaskets

Thank god the crankcase and fuel pump are in good order!

I hope the tractor will be ready with the Panningen event since we need it for transporting other tractors to the show.

I keep you all posted with the progress.

Greetings Martijn

[Pascal]

Hi Martijn,

How's the 8000 doing?
Will it be ready before the Panningen festival?

[Martijn]

Pascal,

Unfortunately the Ford won't be ready for the Panningen event.
The engine is almost assembled again and will be tested on monday.
When everything is ok, we can bring the engine home en put it into the tractor again.
But completing this in this short time (we leave home to panningen on friday) is a bit to short.
We have chosen to drive to the panningen event with our Volvo BM 400 tractor (sorry!) with our 1922 fordson F and 1931 fordson N on a trailer.
We've bought a complete set of steel wheel for the fordson N and these will be delivered at our place on next thursday evening! So we will fit these immediately and put it onto the trailer.
Please visit us on nr. 5xx (don't know the number exactly) and we can meet eachother..

Greetings Martijn

[Pascal]

Hi Martijn,

Too bad you won't make it on time. But the 400 will be a nice replacement. Quite a heavy load for the 400, I guess?
Great that you put the iron wheels on!

I can't make it this year to Panningen.. May be next year?
Have fun in Panningen!

[Pascal]

Hi Martijn,

Did the Volvo managed to get you and the tractors safely to Panningen and afterwards safely home?
I guess I had quite a pull on the two tractors on the trailer?

Did you managed to mount the iron wheels in time?
Some pictures would be great!

[Martijn]

Hey Pascal,

Sorry it took me so long to reply, been on holiday for a week..

We managed to put the steel wheel on the fordson before we left to the Panningen event.
We had a lot of attention when we took our Fordson F on original trembler coils and the fordson N in original condition for a tour around the site. A lot of photo's were taken.
We had a weekend with beautifull show weather and it was crowded really.

I don't understand why you think the Volvo would have a heavy load with these two Fordsons on a trailer behind.
It easily pulls them with a speed of around 40 kph. Including traling the total pulling weight is only about 3,5 tons max.
Last year we also drove to the show with the Volvo. Then we had a E27N P6 with wheelweights and a E27N on full steel wheels on the trailer. A lot heavier than this year. This also wasn't a problem..

Today we finally fitted the engine in the Ford 8000 again and fitted the front end (axle and radiator assembly) again.
We have taken pictures during the work on the engine. I will post them as soon as possible..

Greetings,
Martijn

[Pascal]

Hey Martijn,

Sorry for the late reply.

Great to read the steel wheels were such a success in Panningen!
Sorry to misjudge the weight of the load..or the power of the Volvo.

I see you have no problems at all: see at 23 sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNYLMwCV1GU

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Pascal,

I can see why everyone keeps talking about this festival. That has to be the best line up of tractors I have ever seen. Thanks for taking the video.

Regards, Frank.

[Martijn]

Hey Pascal,

Thank's for the link to YouTube!
Hadn't seen that video myself.
You are right, that's me leaving the site.

Greetings
Martijn