Old Vehicles

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Brian
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Old Vehicles

Post by Brian »

No one on here has mentioned Brexit but we might just have dodged the bullet here in Great Britain.

I understand that the EU are looking into removing all vehicles above a certain age from the roads. You can still own "Historic Vehicles" but they must not be used other than to show and must be trailered to each show, not driven.

Has anyone else heard this?
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oehrick
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by oehrick »

Nope, but it doesn't surprise me Brian - may put a different complexion on all the Scots wanting to stay in the EU but out of the UK

I think this has to be one of the most restrained forums around regarding BREXIT chat (and worse), both us in the UK and the continental chaps - perhaps we are mostly of a 'certain age and disposition'

It'll be nice to pick up some dirt cheap surplus Lanz or HSCS one lungers at scrap prices............

(In case more distant members are unaware, I have to watch what I say cos Brian knows where I live and is close enough to send Ann round to beat me up if I get out of line!)
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes

Brian
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by Brian »

Emiel has a Lanz, one of the later ones with a self starter but Henk's friend Dies took us to meet someone who has one of the "Sunday Afternoon or Going to Market" ones with the full cab and high road gear.

There is a chap in Aus. who collects them and the "KT", the Aussie built version. He has one on half tracks and a couple of HSCS, made in Hungary and very similar to the Lanz.

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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by oehrick »

Thanks for those Brian some nice variants - has always amazed me that Claytons didn't end up quite loosing their shirts with their European Partnership that so many East Anglian (and Fowlers come to that) Engineerring outfits did. Of course AGE did so much damage that even the survivors were holding on by fingernails and goodwill.

I take it you will have first refusal on any EU devalued Lanz 'Saloon Tractors' that your extensive network over there might need to unload ??
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes

Brian
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by Brian »

I have to say this quietly so as not to upset many of my friends world wide.

I hate the things!! A Marshall would be my choice if I ever decided to go down the single cylinder route as I cannot see the attraction of having to heat the cylinder head with a blow lamp for twenty minutes before being able to go to work.

So if I get offered one I will pass it on to you Rick and you can use it to fill one of those wet holes you have down your way.

On the subject of tractors and wet holes, my father remembered an Overtime or Titan being pushed into a pit and buried on Beeston areodrome in the 1930's. Wonder if it is still there.
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Pavel
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by Pavel »

Agreed Brian -- especially if you had the cartridges.

Pavel

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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by oehrick »

I'd heard it was in a pit subsequently filled with tons of surplus grease, around 1/4/31.

I agree on the FM preference BTW - if only - but the Lanz are so primal - I'm sorry to relate and with our German friends watching apologise in advance but there is a Youtube video I'd watched a time or two where the starter-upper is clearly explaining the process to someone, but not loud enough for the mic to pick up and that funny little bit of my head fills in dialog with the Peter Sellars cod German accent he uses for Dr Strangelove, explaining this wonderful invention to his Fuhrer, particularly the security aspect where 'vizout zer schteering veel it cannot start or drive' ! I've often wondered how the electric start road models which I had meant in my comment work, do they need torching or do they have a heater / glowplug fitted ?

Pavel, you've got to hope you gunsmith knows the difference between black powder, cordite and nitro powder, Ben Clitheroe, who was the workshop foreman for Ben Burgess the local dealer had a con rod, more banana shaped than the EU would allow to be sold, which had resulted from the wrong blank being used, the pipe down to the head had split open and looked like a tulip at the top end - Glad I didn't have to go and explain that to my guvnor :eyes:
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes

Brian
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by Brian »

The two stories I have about Marshall starter cartridges.

There was a threshing contractor in Dunham called Abel Spencer who had both steamers and Marshalls, he is the person who gave me my first ride on a traction engine, up to the stackyard across the field, in amongst the coal in the hopper. (Mother was really pleased). :curse: :curse:

One of his drivers called in at the local pub one night and just for a laugh threw a starter cartridge into the fire. :shock: :shock: Strangely he was never allowed in that pub again.

Another time, it is told, Abel heard sounds in the night around the tractors in the yard, thinking thieves he grabbed the shot gun from the rack, stuck in a couple of cartridges, leaned out of the bedroom window and fired into the air. In the gloom he had picked up two starter cartridges instead of two shot gun ones. His twelve bore was never the same again.

Just to make you weep Rick, he had around six traction engines which he sold for scrap at £50.00 each in the early 1960's Soon after the Marshalls and all the drums and elevators went the same way. He and his son went into sugar beet lifting on contract and I think the son is still going today though I have not heard of him for some time.
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oehrick
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by oehrick »

Thats interesting Brian, having figured out what went into the smouldering papers during a school chemistry lesson, I started making them in 'bulk' for Marshall owners in NICE (Norfolk Internal Combustion Engine Society for those a bit further away) 50p for a pack of 25 I think. Anyhow one morning after church 'Uncle Ben' (as he was known both in the club and village) Burgess wanted a quiet word, pulling a pack of my papers out of his pocket I was worried in case I was about to be told off for treading on his toes :eyes: Turned out he was concerned that I was making them safely, bless his dear old heart, and also had been having trouble getting enough to supply his customers and could I make him a hundred packs :clap: :clap: well air drying 2500 of the little blighters proved a problem but having made up a cabinet with the blower from an old photocopier soon improved that, due to the fire risk I never added the air heater it so badly needed. This went on for several years and funded the purchase and restoration of my pre WD type Wolseley and some camera gear. During all that time I wondered but never thought to ask about the exact contents of the cartridges and knowing Ben, he might have conveniently 'not known' from the perspective of safety of a young hellion who had a reputation for experimenting with things beyond his years !

I've heard the starting cartridges were a great favourite of railway signalmen, who would break open and empty into a wad of newspaper, tightly screw the contents into an onion and chuck them onto their stove fires in the autumn - with the door wedged shut with a broom, the resulting whoompf would ckear the stovepipe chimney of soot !

I suspect they were large granule black powder where the ignition is slow developing reducing the 'knock' - I have a pic of a super device from a late 1930's Implement & Machinery Review called 'The Little Giant Log Splitter' a one open ended steel tube with a touch hole at the other end, you fill with black powder then sledgehammer (!) it into the end of a tree trunk, fit a fuse, light and for safety drape a wet sack over - depending on initial charge and degree of compression gateposts or kindling could be produced..........................

Sadly the vast numbers of 15 - 50 quid traction engines which went under the torch are why the fields at Weeting contain a Billion quids worth of the survivors tonight.

On the basis of folk who have been born into bodies of the 'wrong' sex being 'corrected' on the NHS I finally broached the subject with my doctor, who quite frankly laughed at my idea that they might surgically correct the tragedy that was me, someone who by every definition of the matter ought to have been a traction engine owner, being born into the body of someone who couldn't have one. Wiping his eyes and the foam from his lips and office carpet he tried to explain that this was not a medical problem - typical - maybe if I had better legs ?? Unless it was just cost, perhaps I should try with one of the other docs and go for something less costly like a S3 Contractors Marshall with a Boughton fitted ??
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes

Brian
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by Brian »

One of my relations that lived in Wendling has the occupation of "Traction Engine Driver" against his name in the census records of the early 20th century so it is in the blood. :D :D The blood from his brothers did not get as far as me though, they owned local pubs. One of the brothers was called "Christmas" which is an interesting first name.

From what I remember the substance in the cartridge was little tiny "sticks" of a grey, shiny material. I was always told it was a form of gelignite but that could have just been to keep a young fool from experimenting with it. We used to put a twelve bore cartridge in a piece of water pipe then thrash it with a hammer. :yikes: :yikes: Some times I wonder how I managed to get to the age of 73. :scratchhead:

Doctors are so unfeeling. As you know, I am diabetic and the requirements for someone with my condition is to have a blood pressure of an 18 year old. Over the years I have been taking various drugs with varying results, one of which was severe depression, (the reason I have been missing for periods over the years on this site). The one thing that works for me is no drugs, just time spent on my tractors which both drops my blood pressure and sugar levels. This has been documented and verified by the doctor over a number of years now with the wonderful recording machine that they strap on your arm for 24 hours.

Still cannot get another tractor on the NHS. Doctor will not issue a prescription even though he knows it works. :cry: :cry: And it would be cheaper than some of the pills I have to take.
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by oehrick »

Interesting parallels there Brian, despite your 15 yr headstart & yes I rattle at bedtime too :eyes: .

The strands mean it is probably cordite in the cartridge, early smokeless so probably still slowish burning - I never tinkered with shotgun cartridge contents but having access to nuts & bolts enjoyed a brief period of popularity at school where there was a craze for cutting the frog spawn out of guncaps filling the gap between two bolts in the same (coarse Whit or UNC) nut and then pitching it to land on end and detonating the powder, the one creating the bang being the winner - don't recall anyone being upset by this.

http://the-difference-between.com/cordite/gunpowder

http://the-difference-between.com/cordi ... ocellulose

By far my favourites to play with are making water the 'interesting' way by electrolysing 2 volumes of hydrogen and 1 of oxygen, filling a gallon plastic bottle with and corking it with something with a spark gap to which a Mag or coil is attached - we worked our way up to 5 gallon drums which would empty a long-jump pit of sand..... All time favourite is an iodine compound which on drying becomes touch / heat / motion sensitive - in the days when such things were used to illustrate lessons and an understanding of the possible risks and dangers in such experimentation imparted, further tinkering was done in relative safety.

Christmas is an unusual first name, during some of Victorian times it was not uncommon for the wifes unmarried family name to be used as an offsprings first name; as a surname it concentrates around Oxfor, Sussex and North Essex. Then of course there were the nicknames, my favourite of which was the chap that travelled a small fair which hit Coltishall upper common once a year at Whitsun - his name was Rhubarb Underwood.

I'm off to South Walsham this afternoon where Richard Seago is building a new post mill and has recently purchased and repatriated the two remaining steam drainage pumping engines which had been at the Fleggburgh Bygone village until it folded - deserve a knighthood IMHO !

http://web.archive.org/web/201105190009 ... ygvill.htm
Best regards
Rick - Bogside on Bure


1958 Diesel E1A Mk2 s/n 1470165 - still in working clothes

Bensdexta
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by Bensdexta »

Brian wrote:No one on here has mentioned Brexit but we might just have dodged the bullet here in Great Britain.

I understand that the EU are looking into removing all vehicles above a certain age from the roads. You can still own "Historic Vehicles" but they must not be used other than to show and must be trailered to each show, not driven.

Has anyone else heard this?
How ridiculous :(
Hasn't the EU anything better to do - deck chairs on the Titanic come to mind??
Bensdexta - 1961 working for a living!

county654
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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by county654 »

Brian wrote:No one on here has mentioned Brexit but we might just have dodged the bullet here in Great Britain.

I understand that the EU are looking into removing all vehicles above a certain age from the roads. You can still own "Historic Vehicles" but they must not be used other than to show and must be trailered to each show, not driven.

Has anyone else heard this?
Hallo Brian,

over here in Germany I never heard about such plans. There is a large community collecting historic vehicles of all kinds. I don´t think politicans are looking for conflicts with those voters :|
Regards Matthias

With County, you can ;-)

1959 Power Major
1961 County Super 4 drainagemachine
1963 Super Major
1964 NP Super Major 4x4
1966 County 654

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Re: Old Vehicles

Post by ford5000y »

Brian wrote:
I hate the things!! A Marshall would be my choice if I ever decided to go down the single cylinder route as I cannot see the attraction of having to heat the cylinder head with a blow lamp for twenty minutes before being able to go to work.
But, one thing about hot bulb tractors is, they're extremely reliable. for example, the first Ursus C-45 (the polish copy of the 45 hp Lanz Bulldog) worked for 12,000 hours without intervening overhaul.

but I liked the Italian hotbulb tractors even more, especially the Landini hotbulbs. the reason is, they're easier to start (the Lanz needed the steering wheel to turn the flywheel, which is said to be a very hard work, while on the Landini, you only need to grab the flywheel to turn it) and because the Landinis were a lot better looking than the Lanzes.

I might just add, though. If you think a Field Marshall tractor at idle jumps a lot, a SuperLandini hot bulb tractor at idle on rubber tires is a kangaroo compared to a Field Marshall, sometimes with its front wheels hopping well clear off the ground at every power stroke of the engine as you can see in this youtube video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p9WnlIc97k
or this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YytZqNuFa4

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