Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

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1962 model
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Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

Hello everyone,
I have recently bought a Super Major Moore loader which seems to be one of the first with the new 13" industrail clutch.
The loader is a mess, being butchered with modifications and bullet holes, which has damaged several componets incuding the gearbox housing, ( which I will be replacing when rebuilding the engine ). The resurfacing of the clutch face with an angle grinder did not help either!
The engine number of this loader is C 785393 cast A 22 J which does not seem to conform to any engine numbers from this period that I have seen. normally the numbers had changed over to the new system by this time, this has a bit of both numbering systems.

My clutch problem is there are so many extra plugs ( modifications ) added to the circumference of the clutch housing that I cannot work out where the ( missing ) grease line is supposed to attach.
I need to know the dimentions from the front flange and height for the position to drill through the replacment housing ( 1957 version ) to locate the grease nipple point, if anyone can help me?

If anyone knows where I can get minimec injection pump seals & cold start mechanism from that would help also?

Mike

brockwood
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by brockwood »

hi mike its not one of moores super heavy clutches or a home brew attempt at it which was to go back to the e27 wet clutch.the woods museum at rupanyup has one and i think barrie m has a flyer on doing it
1x 23f 1x 34 blue n 1 x 44 green n e27/s x 8 3ooo/ 5000 slectospeed county 754 x1 ford k series truck

1962 model
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

Yes I confirm that I now know it was originally a wet clutch set up that someone converted back to 13" dry clutch, I have seen Barrys drawings when he came over this side with the club a few years back.
The starter drain pipe and starter had been removed and a standard starter fitted.
The rear main seal shield was still there.
The oil deflector plate above the flywheel was still there and all the oiler oil pipes had plugs pit into them.

The steering box also had strips of steel welded each side to stop the steering box moving too much, it would have been better with power steering.

Mike.

Billy26F5
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by Billy26F5 »

Very interesting loader. The serial number could be 08C-785393 with the 08 part being invisible. A22J is 22 Jan 1963 which sounds ok for this too.
The loader might have had power assisted steering like the Ford version and have lost it when the 13" clutch was fitted.
Sandy
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1962 model
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

Thanks for your reply,
As you have probably guessed by now my son and I have a few Fordsons of various models, 1934 to 1963.
The engine number does not have the 08 country code, block acid dipped -it was never there, and the driveline will have been imported especially for Malcolm Moore to be built into a front- end loader.
I have explained to the club that there is no 08 coding on our Super Majors in Western Australia and had no response.

My August 1963 NP major actually has the C facing backwards, I have no Idea if this was to signify the beginning of an assembly batch or just a mistake.
We have found the NP Major serial number 3 away from ours and also the one 12 away.

Billy26F5
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by Billy26F5 »

Looks to me like your serial numbers have been interfeared with as there's no other series with that sort of number. It might have been missed but I think that's very unlikely. I might have expected an industrial engine but the numbers don't fit the industrial series.
Sandy
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1962 model
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

Hi,
Then how do you explain that we have two 1963 Super Majors, and neither have the 08 prefix? Given time I can check the others I have seen for the 08.

Oh I forgot to tell you the Malcolm Moore loader did not have Power steering, despite being a hydraulic loader.

Some of the Malcolm Moore equipment was a carry over.

For example my Sons 1954 maintaince grader ( no power steering ) was obviously fitted up with a grader frame that originally was made for the E27N ( that's how Malcolm Moore did it ) It is also gutless with the early injection system!

What this means is that things don't fit a New Major correctly, the side beam is modified to fit the E1A rear engine mount, the exhaust has to be modified to clear the side beam, the front casting has a huge piece cut out of it for the hydraulic pump drive, the brake and clutch pedals had to be modified so they could be reached and miss the beam as it goes under the foot plates, and has the E 27 N type split rear wheels, it is horrible to drive especially with a steering box at the front of the front axle and a huge amount of lost movement before it reacts.

The 1963 Super Major loader that we started to comment on is somewhat similar, it was obviously designed for a Power Major and when they set up on a Super Major, despite the fact they replaced the front axle in favour of a large solid rectangular solid bar they still used the small front axle pivot pin, and likewise the fabricated radiator support base still had the early radiator mounting holes drilled. The modified A frame has the larger diameter pivot pin, I suppose this with two pins the same size made it easy to align when they welded the frame to the modified front axle beam.
Mike.

Billy26F5
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by Billy26F5 »

I'm beginning to think that Ford must have missed them out at a certain time, but it can't have been for very long. Looks like quite a cumbersome arrangement, and it is odd that they didn't use the Ford power steering. The newest front casting still has the holes for the old radiator anyway, so it could be that they just did the same as Ford.
Sandy
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1962 model
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

No that's not right either.

Western Australian Fordson tractors were assembled in Welshpool Perth ( I have not yet found another assembly factory in W.A. )

The 1962 on dated Super Major tractor front castings did not have the holes drilled for the earlier radiator, this why there is a subsequent instruction as to how to drill the holes if an earlier radiator fitment is desired.
Those castings with both sets of holes have been modified some- time after manufacture in England and initial assembly in Australia, they would not waste their time drilling two sets of holes in England, time is money, and costs were always kept in check, this is one reason why several changes occurred to the E1A over the years during production. To cut costs!

I have both model English castings here, as well as the 1963 Malcolm Moore Australian made one, so I can easily see the differences. I have castings here dating from early 1961 to 1964.

The only Western Australian assembled Super Majors to have the early set of radiator mounting holes drilled ( my casting B15F ) were the first of the red wheel Super Majors, these did not even have the raised pads for the central mounting holes, the old Power Major pneumatic injection pump was also fitted to these tractors.

I suppose if there had been a foul up on the tractor assembly in Victoria, NSW or Queensland, then on the respective assembly line on some of those 1962 dated tractors might have been hand drilled for the extra set of early holes, so the tractor could be finished in a reasonable time. Thats for you on the other side to figure out.

The Super Major loader tractor I was referring to did not have a front casting as such, that is why I referred to it as a fabrication, they were constructed of several pieces of steel welded together, and machined in Australia, this means the machining work was not upgraded by Malcom Moore from the Power Major to the Super Major, as had occurred for the normal Super Major ( the one with a front casting made and machined in England ) The considerable weight of the loader together with working loadings really required the bigger size front-front axle pin.

These pin size irregularities were not just a Western Australian assembly quirk either, as from what I can determine Malcolm Moore conversions were sent from Melbourne to Perth, perhaps on the train, as there was no sealed road between Western Australia and any other state at those times.

Mike.posting.php?mode=reply&f=9&t=6726&sid=8 ... 111d2c9e7e#

Billy26F5
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by Billy26F5 »

I think I must have been confused by having the Ebro version here, as both Super Billy and the half Super Major have Ebro castings with early and late holes drilled in the machine shop before assembly. The Ford manual definitely has the late Super Major one with the later holes only. It's even more confusing here as one casting has the late one's part number (E1ADDN-5020C) but the other one has E1ADKN-5020B on it and yet they're both identical!
That's very odd indeed that Malcom Moore didn't get the larger axle pin, as it would be a bit more difficult to get the other parts, but it could be that they weren't keen to make any changes to their tooling.
Sandy
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1962 model
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

I haven't seen an Ebro, though they were attempts to market them here in Western Australia.

Yes I agree they would be reluctant to make the changes in their tooling and the associated costs, ours had the original pin as far as I can tell and it did the job until the tractor needed a complete rebuild. I am Machinist by trade so understand tooling and Jig changes.

As I hinted at before their Jigs for the Malcolm Moore loader were based on both the front and rear pin being the same size ( 1" I think )

I actually machine up all my front castings and fit new bushes and pins, My castings are all machined at a 2 degree angle for king pin inclination. The side rails are also set at an angle to the engine block which adds to the steering inclination also, but the plans are not specific enough to work out the proper angle of either.

I have even machined out the E27N front casting for the big pin as it is to have a cable loader frame on it.

Mike

Billy26F5
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by Billy26F5 »

We had Super Billy's front casting and sump bushed and it's surprising how much better the axle feels now. If you're going to do this loader I would consider using Super Major size (I think the pin is 1 1/2") and getting a pin with a grease nipple.
Sandy
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1962 model
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Re: Moore Loader industrail clutch set up 1963

Post by 1962 model »

Yes I agree, I have already machined it out for the large pin and welded on two plates which are cross drilled to take the retaining pin too.


As an update with the front casting info;

On page 43 of the January 1963 service manual it explains some of what we have discussed.

There were three types of radiators.
1. up to January 1955.
2.January 1955 to September 1962 08B767403
3. Super major from 08B767403 on.

It states the first type with the attached radiator filler neck can be replaced with the 2nd type.
Also gives the dimention drawing how to modify a Super Major front casting made after 08B767403 so that the 2nd type radiator can be fitted.

Mike.

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