Roadless width

[d.andersen]

Hi

Anybody know how many types of transforboxes
And frontaxles there are for roadless major (super major) ?

I am about to buy a set , but the axel is wider than the
Ones i normaly see ,and transferbox is smaller.

Could it be a selene ?









Here in Denmark we have some converted loaders called "skovgaard" , i hav seen some of them with 4 wd ,and all with the wide axel.

[scoobyjim]

its selene. As far as im aware selene built them for roadless.

Im on restoring one at the minute

[BearCreek Majors]

Yup Selene.
I believe Roadless made the most of them but they were actually licensed by Selene to build them. The axel is normally a GMC military unit shortened up on the left side, they were getting these dirt cheap from army surplus at the time, I believe I read somewhere they were paying $68.00 each for them.

Pat

[d.andersen]

Thanks for the reply.

But a roadless tractors frontaxel is shortned so
that the
wheelhubs has the same width as the rear end (153 cm c-c, outer frontwheel 163 cm ))
And the left joint is mounted directly on the diff. Housing

This one is wider , so the outerside of the front wheels
are the same as the outer of the rear with 16.9-30 wheels
(188 cm )

is this normal for selene ?
Does selene represent the same value as roadless ?

[d.andersen]

I can see many roadless tractors has the frontwheels
turned for wider track , should i just bee satisfied with
the wider axle i can buy ?

[county654]

Hallo Anderson,
I suppose the axelunit was installed on a Major bevor.
So there should be no problem,in case you use the same wheelsizes.

The value of Roadless is higher in GB, in the rest of Europe I think, there is not very much differnce, since most of the very few conversions where Selene based units.

[BearCreek Majors]

Over here we would take anything we can get our hands on!!! I would have to imagine that this axel was purpose built for a wider application, as it is wider I'm thinking the wheels will turn farther thus having a shorter turning radius, not to mention wider is more stable, if your mowing ditch banks this would be and advantage as well!

Pat

[BearCreek Majors]

Try to get the clutch pedal for it otherwise you will have to make one, also the left side brake arm on the shaft, the one that the cable attaches to (non Super disk brakes) has a second keyway broached in it for clearance around the transfer case, this cable is also slightly shorter than the stock one.
The brake pedal lock will not work after the installation, I don't know if Selene made the parts to rectify this or not, I have never seen them but I made a setup to work on mine.
Grab the transmission/transfer case bolts to.

I'll post you some pics but it wont be till next week, you can search my old posts, there will be a lot of pics that well help you.

Is it my imagination or is that wishbone extra long, maybe for a 6 cyl conversion?????

Pat

[d.andersen]

Yes it is longer than normal ,30 cm longer .

So I have to convert that to , even thoug that mine also
is a 6 cyl ,mine has the normal oil pan .

I was also thinking about cutting and welding the axel
to make it shorter .

[county654]

Hi Anderson,
the unit you show in the above pics, was it installed on one tractor or are those parts from different Majors?

[d.andersen]

as far as i know , it is from one tractor

[janus]

hello

i also have a 4wd set of selene (small box) and manual front axle

i'm looking for information, about the amount of theeth of the trasferbox, and the amount of theeth of the pignon , so i know the 4wd set, is for the fast or for the slow pignon crownwheel ( 3.5 or 4.4 gear ratio )


i hope beerCreak majors can post some pictures of the transferbox and, and what pignon cronwheel he has, on his selene

do you have to extend the pto shaft ? and the axle of the main gear lever ?

any info / pictures are welcome

[BearCreek Majors]

OK lets start with this for now. I'm glad you guys remembered the shifter shaft because I didn't, and it is longer than the stock unit.
Janus, I'm not sure if I can find you the gear ratio's, we can jack up the front and count the revolutions to get that ratio but i'm not sure about the transfer box yet. I'll do some more digging.

Pat

The nut and possibly some of the output shaft from the front transmission has been ground off for clearance, I believe it was right down until they got to the head of the retaining bolt.




The drive gear was slipped onto the input shaft.



You can see on the bottom of the housing where they cut out for clearance for the ring gear. (the housing is upside down) You can also see how they cut the short axle housing completely off the main housing, welded on a plate with a hole in it, welded another plate on the inside, then stuck the newly modified short housing in the plates and welded everything together. With this setup they were able to assemble two of the outer axle shafts together to make one short unit for this side.



more cutting on the top of the housing, (still upside down)



differential installed in housing, (housing rite side up as installed in the tractor, differential upside down from how it would be installed in a truck)

[Kiwi Kev]

I'm thinking the wheels will turn farther thus having a shorter turning radius, not to mention wider is more stable,

Pat

Correct me if I'm wrong here Pat, but we are talking about a front axle which pivots on a pin mounted along the front to rear centreline of the tractor, then the width of the front axle will have no bearing on the stability of a tractor.
The width of the rear wheels will have a bearing on the stability.
If you jack up the say, left rear wheel, the right rear wheel will stay on the ground. The more you jack it up the more the left wheel comes off the ground, but the right wheel stays on the ground. The 2 front wheels stay on the ground, as the axle pivots on the centre bush.
Once you have used up all the front axle pivot travel (when the tombstone contacts the front axle) then the width of the front axle will have a bearing on stability.
If you're on the side of a hill, and 1 of your rear wheels is 2 foot off the ground before the front axle gives you more stability, then I think that we are pushing our luck with safety.

I am following this thread closely, as I once was going to build my own 4WD major. Have since decided that it is better to have 2 tractors. 1 which is 2WD for 90% of your work, and 1 which is 4WD for the other 10% of the work.

As I said, correct me if I'm wrong. We are never too old to learn.

Kiwi Kev

[county654]

Thank you for the pics, Pat

Do you think, there is a possibility to use a setup like yours in a reverse drive machine?
Where would the direction of rotation be changed?

The unit I was offered and Anderson´s look like yours.

@ Kiwi

You are about right in your suggestion concerning stability. I think those wide axels are used manly in the reverse loaders, since there are massive siderails alongside the engine. With a regular Manuel axel , you would have a very large turnig circle

[BearCreek Majors]

Kev, I would have to agree with you about the stability of a wider front axel, I wasn’t thinking that one through very well!
The turning radius I was assuming could be smaller because with the wider stance the wheel/hub assembly could be adjusted to turn sharper as the wheels shouldn’t make contact with the driveshaft, frame rails, etc….. but I could be wrong about that as well.

For a reverse drive I’m assuming the differential in the tractor would be flipped around 180° to give you two forward gears and six reverse gears, (a friend of mine did this unintentionally on a small Farmall years ago, his face was a little red the first time he took it for a drive) and the differential in the front axel would be installed rite side up as were the trucks.

Pat

[janus]

thanks for the pictures pat

i found out that the 4wd set of mine is for the 3.5 differential, i found an old picture of the rear end, with the lift cover of, and the pignon has 10 teeth , so its for a normal super major ( the fordson major where the 4wd set was mounted on, is sold years ago, but, i'm happy i had an old picture of the rear end.


what is the different between a 4wd set for a super major, or a super major new performance

there have to be a different, because they have different gear ratio , how can you see ( if you don't have the tractor), if your 4wd set is for a super major, or a super major new performance anyone knows ?

[BearCreek Majors]

They could have compensated for the different gear ratio by changing wheel size, maybe they used different gears in the transfer case or the front ring and pinion, or they may not have had a unit available for the optional Super Major gear ratio.

D.andersen pointed out one more part that I forgot about, the PTO shaft was longer as well.

Pat

[d.andersen]

Would there realy be any differens on the ratio ??

the rear end and 4 wd transferbox are both placed after the transmission, so would that change anything ? as I understand the ratio differens is changed in the transmission

[BearCreek Majors]

The difference is normally in the ring and pinion in the rearend with high gear in the transmission having a ratio of 1-1

Pat

[d.andersen]

I think i read somewhere ,that the front axle diff .
Has either 18 or 21 tooth. But I'm not sure.

Normaly front wheel I have seen is 9.5-24, although
other sizes has later been used.

When people use larger front wheels, the frontwheels
will pull Harder .

The transfer box I have is currently sitting on a 61 super
Rear end ,and is to be used on a 62 so I hope there will
be no problem .

If they both have 10 tooth it should be the same ,should it not ?

[BearCreek Majors]

I'd count the teeth on the ring gear as well.

Pat

[d.andersen]

I was just looking in the instructionbooks for old supermajor
and the book for n/p super major

in the old book (60-62) only one ratio is mentioned , on
n/p both 3.5 and 4.375:1 are mentioned

[janus]

both the differentials have 35 teeth on the ringwheel



35 teeth ring / teeth pignon 10 = 3,5 gear ratio
35 teeth ring / teeth pignon 8 = 4,375 gear ratio

if you remove the main gear lever you can see what differential you have in the rear end , this you can see at width of the ringwheel ( see photo )




on the left the slow 4,375 on the rights the fast 3,5 ( because the fast diff , has a bigger pignon ( 10 teeth ) the ringwheel is smaller )


here some pictures of the selene front axle and transfercase

the drive gear 20 teeth


transfercase the driven gear has 45 teeth


front axle


front axle


front axle


fordson where the 4wd kit was mounted on

[BearCreek Majors]

Thanks Janus! I'm going to print out that pic of the two differential's and put it in my file.

Pat