road speed

[super6]

since starting this thread i have looked into changing ration by means of a diesel major crown wheel and pinion, after lots of head scratching i decided that it was far easier to change the whole back end, and lose the super major draft control and diff lock.
if you were to chage diff etc, i would only do it if you are well trained in mechanics as setting it up right seems to anything thing but straight forward.

[Dandy Dave]

I've put ring and pinion sets in different machinery and automotive stuff before. You must put them together in sets as they are lapped together at the time of manufacture. Depending on the situation, I would either use blueing, or on a Caterpillar dozer, or where else possible, use a piece of paper to check the pattern. After you have mastered doing it a few times, it becomes easier. The hardest ones to do are ones that require shims for adjustment. It is much easier when there are threaded rings to move. Dandy Dave!

[Foxen]

Still, it doesn't answer the question I brought up, about fitting the entire diff assembly from an older major into the housing of a super major...

[Aussie Frank]

Hi Brett,

I am with Dandy Dave on this one with one proviso, if you can get a detailed set of measurements that you need to do from a set of instructions the work is not hard, just a bit time consuming. Some bearing blue and instructions on how to set the backlash is all that is needed. Shims are a pain when you are changing different gears onto new diff carriers as they will never be the same as the original ones, but it only takes more time and measurement to get it right.

Once you have the diff in place it is only shims on the outside of the diff housing that need to be changed as far as I can tell. It certainly is for the early Majors, I am sure Brian can confirm this for the super.

Sorry for adding this to your thread but my interest in this thread is for the opposite reason. I would like to fit a 4.4 diff into an early major. From the sounds of it, it should be possible if I can overcome the rivet problem. Does anybody know if there is a diff carrier that will fit into an early Major that has bolts rather than rivets holding on the crown wheel?

Regards, Frank.

[Dandy Dave]

I have never been in a major rear end, So I cannot tell you what the difference is between the major, and super major. I can tell you that the part numbers are different in the parts list for both sets of gears in the later tractors, and also for the ealier set in the older majors even though the ratio is the same. Given the different part numbers, an educated guess would be no, they will not inter-change. It could very well be that the case was machined out more, or less, and the gears were made thicker, or thinner in the later case so that the newer ratio could be interchanged. For a pinion to have 8 teeth instead of ten, the crown gear would have to be thicker to engage the pinion correctly.

To have a 4.375 (4.4) ratio, there should be 8 teeth on the pinion, and 35 on the gear.

If Brian has not answered, maybe it is because he is unsure. Maybe the question shoud be, Does any wrecker already have gears out of both types of dissasembled tractors to compare the gears side by side to.

Of course Brian may also be testing our ability to get though this problem and grinning about it also. At this point I have offered all the advice that I have practical knowledge of. So who has the gears Dandy Dave!

[Dandy Dave]

I re-read this entire post, and Brian has already said that the gears will interchange. The difference is, the older gears are rivited, and the NP gears are bolted. Hence the difference, and most likely the difference in the part numbers is, that the riveted gear came with the differential. The bolted gears did not. All you need to do is go to work and get your hands dirty. He also said that the easiest way to set the backlash is with a dial indicator. I have done this before and it does make setting up something like this much easier. He has not answered, because he has already answered your question. Forgive me for doubting you Brian, almighty guru of the Fordson Major. Dandy Dave!

[Brian]

Sorry chaps, my board input is limited by work at the moment and I seem to be spending most of the time getting rid of the silly people offering sex, tractors, financial assistance, Dexta ( little blue pills that go by a name that is not allowed on here and automatically changes to Dexta) and Russian brides. What these people think this lot has to do with Fordson tractors is beyond me.

Yes a Major dif. and pinion will fit in a Super but that would mean loosing the dif.lock, one of the big advantages of the Super.

The crown wheel itself would fit, does not really matter about rivetts or bolts, we always replaced rivetts with bolts anyway.

The bull gears themselves are different. The Super gears are narrower so the Major ones will not fit unless you change the housings.

Shimming up with a dial gauge is easy enough to do. Remember we are not working on a race car here and everything is a bit crude.

[Foxen]

Sorry chaps, my board input is limited by work at the moment and I seem to be spending most of the time getting rid of the silly people offering sex, tractors, financial assistance, Dexta ( little blue pills that go by a name that is not allowed on here and automatically changes to Dexta) and Russian brides. What these people think this lot has to do with Fordson tractors is beyond me.

Yes a Major dif. and pinion will fit in a Super but that would mean loosing the dif.lock, one of the big advantages of the Super.

The crown wheel itself would fit, does not really matter about rivetts or bolts, we always replaced rivetts with bolts anyway.

The bull gears themselves are different. The Super gears are narrower so the Major ones will not fit unless you change the housings.

Shimming up with a dial gauge is easy enough to do. Remember we are not working on a race car here and everything is a bit crude.

Just about the answer I was looking for
I was thinking of just pulling the diff assembly out and replacing that with one from a major and then push back the bull pinion shafts in(and their respective housings), losing the diff lock is not a problem for me as I won't be using it for much anything except forest work and there you mainly use steering brakes, so not losing the disc brakes would be good...

[essex pete]

Sorry chaps, my board input is limited by work at the moment and I seem to be spending most of my time offering sex, tractors, financial assistance, vi@gra ( little blue pills that go by a name that is not allowed on here and automatically changes to Dexta) and Russian brides.

Shimming up with a dial gauge is easy enough to do. Remember we are not working on a race car here and everything is a bit crude.

Is shimming up a euphemism then?

[Dandy Dave]

Just about the answer I was looking for
I was thinking of just pulling the diff assembly out and replacing that with one from a major and then push back the bull pinion shafts in(and their respective housings), losing the diff lock is not a problem for me as I won't be using it for much anything except forest work and there you mainly use steering brakes, so not losing the disc brakes would be good...

For the little bit more that it would take to grind the rivets off, knock them out, unbolt the crown gear, and bolt the older gear on your existing differential is nominal as you will be very deep in the tractor to begin with. Better to have the differential lock option than not. Someday, if you sell the tractor, it may make the difference in the sale. Also, you will be using the bearings, and bullgears that have been in the tractor. Changing the whole unit will require re-shiming anyway if that is what you are trying to get around. Dandy Dave!

[Brian]

Don't forget that you cannot just change a crown wheel, you have to change the pinion as well as they are a matched pair.

[Dandy Dave]

You must put them together in sets as they are lapped together at the time of manufacture. Dandy Dave!

Thanks for confirming my Quote from above Brian, Dandy Dave!

[Supermanuel]

As Kjetil wrote, no catalogue does know a 3,3 ratio. I think that after some scratching there is stamped 3,5.

As np is faster at same rpm, the difference lays in gearbox. The first gear pair in main box was in earlier models 23:24 teeth. In np 24/23 teeth giving a total ratio in 6th gear of 17,8:1 instead of 19,3:1 in older models. These parts are interchangeable as a set.

It means that the engine makes in np 17,8 revs, when the rear wheels make one.