Is it legal?

[JohnnyBoy]

I’ve been chatting to a mate who’s followed an old tractor today that did not have any rear wings on it. He thought it was dangerous and I agree but I’m not sure whether it’s legal or not.

I’m led to believe if it is an owner who’s driving it then it’s okay but if the driver’s employed by the owner then the tractor must have rear wings on.

I’m also led to believe this same ruling applies to having a roll bar fitted to an open tractor, can anyone verify this please?

[Ian]

From what I know. If it's your own tractor it's fine is you drive it and it's basically on fire, or has some other health and safety issue. But if you are an employer, and one of your employees uses it, you must have a roll bar.

[Brian]

It is not OK.

In fact if you are the owner you get hit very hard if you use it for work. Under Health and Safety you are fined as the operater, for using it like that and as an owner for allowing it to be used. So the fine is doubled.

All tractors used in any form of agriculture must be fitted with a "Q" cab or, if fitted with a roll bar, must meet the Noise Regulations.

If the tractor was built with wings they should be fitted, however some early machines did not have them. These would not be used on the road though.

[Bensdexta]

It sounds as though the tractor was being driven on the public highway with no mudguards, in which case safety of the public is a concern. Although I guess tractor mudguards don't provide much safety for pedestrians etc.

[john.n]

are the noise regs the regualtions at the time of manafacture or upto date standards?

[Brian]

Everything was updated a few years ago to bring the noise at work regs up to todays specs.

The argument is that there should be no old machines now in use so all should/must meet the current specs. You can always wear ear defenders if you are only using the machine for a short while.

You have then taken precautions. You can work for certain lengths of time in a higher noise level but then should take a break of a few hours.

The earlier types of "Q" cab only just got in under the regs at the time and age has taken its toll. Some IH cabs did not comply after a couple of years as the padding aged. Driving a tractor with the doors open or with missing windows negates the regulations too and you would be in trouble.

Remember also that age is a factor. Old foggys like me can get away with slightly more than you youngsters. The argument is that we were at work and had damaged our hearing before the regulations were drawn up.

I can't say I can recommend the constant jet engine whine I hear 24/7 because of working in high noise environments in my younger days.

[JohnnyBoy]

I’m assuming it was a restored tractor my mate referred to as he said it looked tidy, he couldn’t tell me the make but said it was green, John Deere maybe? He also said it seemed to have a wide track, but we can all turn the wheel discs around to widen our tracks

[JohnnyBoy]

are the noise regs the regualtions at the time of manafacture or upto date standards?

And as restorers, do we have to abide by H & S regulations if we are not using our tractors for commercial purposes?

If we take our tractors on the road we have to abide by the highways regulations and despite not requiring a MOT, our tractors do have to be roadworthy. Would the rear wings come under the highways regs if they were fitted as original equipment and would they be exempt from having rear wings if they were not originally fitted?

[Brian]

Restored tractors not used for agri. purposes do not have to comply with the HSE Regs.

The clue is in the word Work. But what is defined as work? If for example you used it for topping your pasture, if you kept a pet sheep, it could be classed as work. Unfortunately there is no clear definition.

Road regs are different and it would depend on how the police viewed it. The tractor in question sounds like an early John Deere which did not have wings so they would not be required, unlike a Major with the wings removed.

If you do one or two charity road runs per year with other old tractors, I cannot see a problem.

You would come up against the HSE Regs again when you attend a show. All shows have to comply with a safety standard on exhibits to get insurance.[/b]

[JohnnyBoy]

Restored tractors not used for agri. purposes do not have to comply with the HSE Regs.

The clue is in the word Work. But what is defined as work? If for example you used it for topping your pasture, if you kept a pet sheep, it could be classed as work. Unfortunately there is no clear definition.

b]

Hi Brian, interesting debate.

Interesting how you use the word “work” and I use the word “commercial”.

I got my first tractor to use for field maintenance so she (Susie May) does work, but not for commercial gain, she is road worthy, has Road Tax, Comprehensive insurance and public liability insurance, a TVO licence and will be hauling a load of logs that I am currently logging, on a roadworthy trailer from the field down to the cottage on the public roads this weekend. Now I believe this is “domestic” use (another word) and as far as I’m aware the HSE have no jurisdiction over domestic use which is what I’m doing, unless I cause a danger to the public in which case the police, HSE and VOSA would no doubt get involved.

[Gman]

It's only illegal if you get caught. Over here no tag, registration and tractors run on the road all the time even in city limits.

[Brian]

This is the grey area. I use mine for "work" on my land which is similar to what you are doing.

We should be using white diesel. As far as I understand, we should also be registered as agricultural or commercial vehicles as the Historic reg is only meant for show and not working vehicles. TVO is another grey area as you should use taxed fuels in the mix.

Having said that, the DVLA would not register Nuffy as an agricultural tractor because of her age.

The HSE did try to get all tractors to be fitted with safety frames but relented and excused ones for show. The reading of the situation as far as my information goes is for any other purpose HSE regs apply.

No-one has stopped me yet although my late brother-in-law, a retired senior HSE official, used to make comments.

As you say, until something happens, we will not know. I can have a word with my contacts and get the current thinking on the matter.

It may be similar to the chain saw regs where, in a work situation, you should wear all the protective gear to avoid falling foul of the law, but in a home use situation, you are advised to wear it but it is not mandatory.

[JohnnyBoy]

We should be using white diesel. As far as I understand, we should also be registered as agricultural or commercial vehicles as the Historic reg is only meant for show and not working vehicles. TVO is another grey area as you should use taxed fuels in the mix.

Having said that, the DVLA would not register Nuffy as an agricultural tractor because of her age.

As you say, until something happens, we will not know. I can have a word with my contacts and get the current thinking on the matter.

Hi Brian, I’ve just been and checked out my insurance for my Fergie and Fordson and also my TVO licence prior to hauling my load of logs from the field to the cottage.

My insurance says I can use both my tractors for Social and Domestic pleasure, Agricultural purposes, Rallies, Shows, Demonstrations, Competitions, Road runs and Towing. My policy does exclude me from using my tractors for hire or reward.

My TVO licence allows me to mix the fuel within the tractors tank only and states it is a concession from the commissioners of revenue and customs for tractors manufactured prior to 1960. I’m led to believe this is because commercially produced TVO was withdrawn from production in 1974. My Fordson of course is run on DERV rather than Gas Oil at all times, in fact the nearest place I know to get gas oil is at least 13-miles away, so for the amount of fuel I use it would be a waste of my time fetching it.

I would be interested in learning more about the regs if your contacts could tell us more but for the moment I’m happy continuing as I am doing and yes it may be similar to the chainsaw regs.

I have to take the wings off the FMD if only to brace them at some point because the salt water has really taken its toll on the tinwork and they do flop about a bit, but i don't think I'd want to use it with them off.

I’ll be interested to see what the taxation class for the Fordson is when I get the V5 back from the DVLA with the “Q” registration number on it, prior to me applying for an age related plate.

[rich2a]

Hi,I read recently in one tractor mag that all classic/vintagetractor users could now use red diesel to shows, ploughing matches and road runs. Any further news on this front? cheers, Rich

[JohnnyBoy]

Hi,I read recently in one tractor mag that all classic/vintagetractor users could now use red diesel to shows, ploughing matches and road runs. Any further news on this front? cheers, Rich

Hi Rich, I’m un-sure whether you could use red diesel under these circumstances.

Until just over a week since I worked for the largest retailer in the world in their UK based supermarket chain, the second biggest in the UK. We had 2-sites about a mile and a half apart by road. 50% of my work involved driving a Shunter, Tug, Pig, call it what you want but it was a purpose built piece of kit for moving trailers. (You may have seen these things loading HGV trailers on to ferries at ports) We used to move trailer on occasions between the 2-sites and apparently this was okay at one point, then management said we needed to run these on DERV if we were going on the road, then we went back to gas oil. Next we had to split our journey by dropping in at another satellite depot that we had, then we could only carry empty trailers on the road…

…the only productive thing our management did was to put wheels on the goal post to make it easier for them to move lol… Having said that, the refrigeration trailers run on Gas Oil all the time.

[Tmac]

I can't say I can recommend the constant jet engine whine I hear 24/7 because of working in high noise environments in my younger days.

I really cant recommend the "747" engine ear whine either. I got it bad right from the source, the 747. Having worked on them from the very first one built and others for nearly 20 years!! ;(( PS: So does everyone else I know that worked on them jets!!

Sure is a good thing your British rule makers aren't here in the USA, the Tea Party people would be looking to lynch them. Ag rules are so limited there are just about aren't any!! ) Lights are only required for operations at 5 min after sunrise and before sunset. Besides in my county there are 5000 miles of county roads, and only 25 Deputies to patrol them, and they are spread over 3 shifts. Fat chance of ever seeing one of them.

In my state WA ALL ag tractors and most ag machines are exempt from titles and any kind of license plates. Ag machines may even be run on or towed the Freeways if less than 25 mph with slow moving triangle fixed. That is if less than 8 ft 6 in. If wider must have a pilot car or Oversize load sign attached. These can be up to 14 ft without permit.


I tow my log splitter anywhere. It is exempt from the 25 mph limit because all lights from my tow vehicle can be seen. My pickup has farm tabs too, which are 1/2 the cost of regular tabs being only $18.00 yearly.

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