Old digger

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:09 pm

I bought a new......................(old, 1955) toy to put behind my Roadless. I have to fix some kind of quick attachment for it so I can take it off easy.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... mes002.jpg

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:30 pm

No hydraulics

How does it work?
Must be a cat's cradle with all those cables ?

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:45 am

Bensdexta wrote:No hydraulics
How does it work?

That´s what I have to find out.

It has two winch drums that rotates in opposite directions. One lever starts one of them and the other lever starts the other one. Then there are two pedals to brake them. When both brakes are on, the bucket stays up and the turning brakes are released and the same levers turns the boom sideways.

(At least I think it works that way.) I have had it just for a fev days yet.

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:07 am

That is a Neat old backhoe. I've never seen one quite like it, but I have ran, and worked on, my share of old cable power shovels. Some times these were refered to as a Drag hoe. Looks like the drums are powerd off of a PTO. You may want to be sure that the direction of rotation is correct for the old Fordson's PTO before going too far with it. Also, I would not rely on the three point hitch to hold it alone as these old machines can create a lot of force and break the back of the tractor. It should be more of an extention of the loader frame. The limiting factor of this type of hoe is that it only works well being pulled, unlike a hydraulic hoe with double acting cylinders that push, as well as pull. Dandy Dave!

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:17 am

Grani wrote:
Bensdexta wrote:No hydraulics
How does it work?
That´s what I have to find out. It has two winch drums that rotates in opposite directions. One lever starts one of them and the other lever starts the other one. Then there are two pedals to brake them. When both brakes are on, the bucket stays up and the turning brakes are released and the same levers turns the boom sideways. (At least I think it works that way.) I have had it just for a fev days yet.

Basically, in a nut shell, yes. You engage a drum lever to hoist the load, release and hold the load with the brake on that drum, and feather the brake to let the load down. After a time it becomes second nature. You also will need a swing control, or the machine will not be that useful. Dandy Dave!

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:30 am

Looking at the photo again, it looks like the peddles may be the swing control, and the brakes and hoist may be in the levers like an old cable blade Caterpillar bulldozer. More photos of the linkage and drums would tell. Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:11 am

I tried how it would fit on the back of the Roadless. Not bad for the eyes.

The hydraulic lift was doing it´s best to get it up from the ground. I have to make a pto shaft to get it working.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... mes003.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... mes006.jpg

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:16 pm

What a great combination, Grani!
What do you think the digger weights?

What are you planning to use it for?

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:58 pm

Pascal wrote:What a great combination, Grani!
What do you think the digger weights?

What are you planning to use it for?

Thanks.

Approx 900 to 1000kg but the weight is far out to the back. When I buy something like this I have no idea what to use it for. I just enjoy having it untill I find something to put the bucket in.

I hope I do not get too many test holes in my garden in the future.

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:21 pm

Once you get the PTO hooked up and the clutches working it will lift much easier with the boom hoisted. Just be carefull driving under wires. Now that I see it from a better photo there is a lever in the center. Looks like a boom lock. It would be an odd position for a swing lever which I doubt. When you run a cable machine it is standard procedure to always keep your hand on the swing lever at all times and use your other hand to crowd and hoist. The levers in most machines lock over center for the boom and crowd while in the engaged position. Be sure the cables are good as a fraid and rusted one can break, snap back, and kill you. The cables should be lubricated from time to time also. I use old used gear oil for the cables in my old cable machines. Just paint it on. Also, if someone offers you some cable, be sure it is solid core, as some cable is rope core (commonly used on elevators) and it is not ment for this type of machine. Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:55 pm

The centerlever is to open the hatch on the optional loader bucket. The swingbrake is automatic.

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:26 pm

Grani wrote:The centerlever is to open the hatch on the optional loader bucket. The swingbrake is automatic.

I've never seen a back hoe with a trip door bucket. Unusual. Trip doors over here are used on shovel fronts which requires a crowd, which is double acting, a hoist to pick the load, and a mast winch to hold the boom up at about a 45 degree angle. The idea is to swing over a truck and trip the bucket to drop the load. These are ment to dig into a bank from the bottom of the pile.

Cable Backhoes are ment to dig down from the top of the pile or into the ground. To load a truck with one of these it is best to be on a hill and to park the long ways with the boom.

The hydraulic hoes add a third feature as the bucket is movable at the end of the stick which makes it a much more useful machine than the earlier designs. I find the evolution of earth moving equipment and design fasinating as from the early machines where every manufacture had there own idea, to what we have now which has become basically a standard design for all. This stuff drives me almost as wild as a Green Eyed Red head.

Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:06 pm

Dandy Dave wrote:
Grani wrote:The centerlever is to open the hatch on the optional loader bucket. The swingbrake is automatic.
I've never seen a back hoe with a trip door bucket. Unusual. Trip doors over here are used on shovel fronts which requires a crowd, which is double acting, a hoist to pick the load, and a mast winch to hold the boom up at about a 45 degree angle. The idea is to swing over a truck and trip the bucket to drop the load. These are ment to dig into a bank from the bottom of the pile.

Cable Backhoes are ment to dig down from the top of the pile or into the ground. To load a truck with one of these it is best to be on a hill and to park the long ways with the boom.

This has both options by moving the short boom and the pulley the other way round and replace the bucket.
On this picture you can see how it´s done.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... s003-1.jpg

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:07 pm

Now that's cool. On the large shovels that I have operated you always had to change the entire attacment. Bucyrus, North West, Hanson, General, and Bay City to name a few. Many were set up at the factory and never changed as it was a major undertaking. Often, contractors would just buy another machine rather than change attacments. This way they were always ready for whatever came along in the job world. Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:21 pm

Some test digging pictures.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... s002-1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... s001-1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... s004-1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w315 ... s003-2.jpg

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:49 pm

Where do you sit?

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 pm

Bensdexta wrote:Where do you sit?

I made a seat today behind the normal seat, those pictures are a fev days old and I had no seat at first.

brownsmule · Post by **brownsmule** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:52 pm

Oh My; brings back memories........ Did a little of that with a 22B Bucyrus-Erie crawler. Same idea only larger (the 22B that is) It could be rigged for a crane; a front shovel and a backhoe. Eight hours on that machine and there is no need for a membership to the gym. Hope you enjoy yourself on that marvelous invention. brownsmule

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:15 pm

Grani, Now that you have it digging, what did you finally come up with for the operator controls? Which lever and peddle does what?

Browns Mule, Was the 22B cat powered or Detroit powered? I've seen them both ways. I also saw one many years ago that was gas powered with a Hercules. I still get to play with one from time to time with a Cat D-318 and a wide bottom with a dragline attachment. It's over in Maple Hill NC. Dandy Dave!

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:48 pm

Dandy Dave wrote:Grani, Now that you have it digging, what did you finally come up with for the operator controls? Which lever and peddle does what?

When i pull the right lever it hoist the boom and pushes the bucket back. To hold it up I have to press the right pedal. When I release the right pedal the bucket goes down. Then when I pull the left lever it pulls the bucket forward and the weight forces it down. (If I don´t wan´t it to go too deep I can pull a little the right lever at the same time.) At the point where I wan´t to lift the bucket up I stop pulling the left lever and then press the left pedal to lock the position. Then I lift it up by pulling the right lever. When it´s up I have to press the right pedal to lock the position. Now when both the pedals are pressed it releases the swing brake an now when i pull the levers the force to the locked winch drums turn the boom instead.

I just found a "video" from 1955 that is from a fair here in Finland. At time 3:20 is a clip where a man is digging with a Temmes that was a brand new model at that time.
http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/?s=s&g=1&ag=86&t=562&a=6300

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:48 am

I was trying to figure out the swing as it seemed you were minus one lever. It is all clear now. One of my old Shovels, a model 41 Hanson, if I kick it from walk to swing and lean on the lever it will cause the tracks to turn in there own circle thereby steering it. They only built 6 model 41's in 1952, and I have one of them. It seems the swing in you backhoe works the same way. As you dig, release the boom brake slightly and that will set your depth. As you get good at it you will find that after you fill the bucket it is faster to hoist with both clutches engaged. The tricky part is remembering to release them before the boom and stick is all the way in. A good operator will always keep the cable tight as slack can "bird nest" the cable and make a mess. Happy digging.

Dandy Dave!

Post by **Brian** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:15 am

What a great little fim Grani! I will pass it on to our Finnish friend here in Norfolk.

Grani · Post by **Grani** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:41 pm

Pascal · Post by **Pascal** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:34 pm

Hi Grani,

Both are great flick!
I guess you will be digging your complete garden now?

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:29 pm

Cool. If you boom up as you are dumping the load it will keep the bucket from hitting the ground. As you become more perficiant, you will find that this will be neccesary as the dirt pile gets higher. Also, try to not drop the bucket so hard. The old time opperators will frown on that. Run it smooth, and they will smile. It takes some time and practice, but you will get good at it. Running a cable machine is an art form. The more you do, the better you get. Have fun.

Dandy Dave!

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