Cranckcase and oil splashes

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henk
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Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

It's been a long time since I wrote anything on the forum.
Only when problems arise are you prompted to write again.

What's the problem.
About two years ago I noticed black oil splashes on the left side of the engine. I thought that the valves should be adjusted again and the oil changed. Also a new filter of course. The crankshaft oil seal at the front also started leaking again. The following summer the splashing increased. I was planning to take care of everything last winter. But due to circumstances it was not possible.
About three weeks ago I spent an afternoon ploughing after making some changes/improvements to my plough.
Now the entire side was splashed and the crankshaft seal was leaking considerably. The oil splashes come from the exhaust.
Now it is often said, let the tractor work well and then it will pass, but in all that time the Major has worked quite well with ploughing. So I'm afraid this doesn't help enough.

Of course I talk to other classic tractor enthusiasts about this.
Some thoughts from those enthusiasts:
Worn piston rings
Incorrectly adjusted valves
Bad valve seals
Worn valve stem guides and valve stems
AND: bad crankshaft cover venting.

Now I have a 1957 Mk1 engine and I wonder how the crankcase ventilation works on this engine.
On the MK2 and all later models there is an outlet on the distribution cover that ultimately vents the crankcase through a small filter. I do NOT have this variant.
How can I determine whether the venting is working good or not?

Thanks in advance
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

Look at the pipe from the rocker cover to the manifold, as if blocked it won't create the vacuum needed to stop what you're getting (taking the filler cap off should cause an increase in engine speed and covering the hole with your hand you should feel a suction). Probably worth checking bolts too as many leaks come from loose bolts. The breather on later engines is to allow air in, as when it goes out all the oil splashes out even if the slinger is fitted. Lots of problems come from lack of work, but some (like this one) can actually get worse. Hope it's not any of the more serious issues. Might yet be worth fitting new seals but good breathing should avoid such issues, you'll probably be burning a bit of oil too if the valves are leaking but again the breathing should be the first check.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

Thanks Billy,
I have checkt the oil filler cap. There's no speed change at all when doing the test.
Come to think of it, in the same time when problems started I've bin using other oil. Will look for the specs. I don't think thats the problem, but better check.
I fear there's a lot of work comming.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

Very definitely sounds like this pipe is blocked, try it again after cleaning to see if it improves. Ford recommended SAE20HD for cooler times and SAE30HD for hotter times but those are probably not easy to find as such nowadays. I don't think it's an oil problem either, but only time will tell.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

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henk
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

The oil is Total Rubia SX30. A minaral oil. So I think it's the right oil. Could 10W/40 modern oil be better, because heated is should be thicker dan the W30 oil
I knew wich pipe you ment. I'll check it. Are there other places to check for the ventilation?
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

Just want to know. When I was looking for the ventilation I notice the screw plug on the right front side in front of the oilfilter and under the houre meter drive. What is the purpes? Just blocing a bore?
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

I'm not expert on modern oils but 10W40 seems a bit thin, we use 15W40 and Brian uses 20W50, but it must be a mineral HD oil. Can't see if what you're using is mineral or not but I'm doubtful about whether it's an HD oil or not. There's no other ventilation on a Major engine, the breather on later engines allows an open circuit, but in your case it works by creating a vacuum in the crankcase. That plug (like many others on the engine) is for plugging the hole for drilling the oil pump output hole. You shouldn't need to do anything to it, they're normally very tight and would only need removing if the oil holes need a full clean.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

The cranckshaft ventilation is not blocked. So that's not the problem.
The oil could be part of it. It's not a HD version. So the oil could be to thin and at high temp and therefore low on viscosity.
Changing it to 15W40 with HD could maybe help.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

That does sound like the problem, as diesel engines must have an HD oil of sorts. Probably worth checking bolts are tight anyway though, you never know what that might fix.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by mathias1 »

Henk,
I hope it will solve your problem.
Which oil did you order?
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Selene built on the Fordson Super Major New Performance with Silvant winch

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

Hello Mathias, It's Total oil SAE30 without HD.
I'm going to change it in HD 20W50 oil and see what happens. Yesterday we had a club event and I taked with a view people about it. The all came up with piston rings and then the valves, but when I mentioned the oil they all say, you could be right. So I give it a go.
Keep you posted.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

To day I changed the oil in HD 20W50. No result with the oil leakage at the front and excaust, altough the spashes ar larger and thicker :cry: The oil pressure is 40 again with a bit of RPM's and staitionairy 35.
Next thing to do, I think, will be checking the compression pressure. Or renewing the valve seals. If that will not cure the leaking the head must come off I think.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

I would suggest new valve seals for now, as for the front crank seal they leak very often, but normally because of lots of use (the pulley gets a gouge in it allowing leaking past a seemingly perfect seal or even a new one). If the oil coming out gets worse under a heavy load then it might be that you need new rings but try the valve seals first as they should help keep the oil out of the exhaust. Oil pressure seems good. Are you getting blue smoke too? If so see if that goes too with new valve seals. If not new rings will be needed, with any other bits that you see necessary too. Seems like you'll be taking your Major apart again, hopefully less than last time.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

I was looking into the valves seals with the help of the part slist. On the inlet valve there's a seal with number 6571. It looks like a sort of O-ring and is placed under collet and in the bottom of the retainer. There's no seal on the outlet valve. The I&T Shop Service Manual No: FO-12 on paragraphs 312-314 say's: there’s no grove anymore in the inlet vale to hold the ring type seal because the cup seal type do not need one.
Also I see in the parts list that the rocker shaft is mounted on 4 brackets and mine has 5. Mine has also the newer cup seals.
So it seems that between 1952 and 1957 February there has been several changes on the head. I always thought the MK1 engine didn't have that many.

As for the cup seals, they all we up against the retainer. Looks to me that they should be down. When I pressed them gently down and start the engine some came up again. They felt soft. Would this mean they should be replaced?

I know the front seal leaks often on these engines. Mine is mostly parked with hot engine and is not started during the winter. Then in the spring the problem starts. This is going to be the third time for me over 20 years.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

For the front crank seal you need to check the pulley first to make sure there's no groove worn in it, as for the valves the cup type seals appeared on 1458447 rubber ring seals were fitted to a groove in the inlet valve stems only before then, and although Ford say to use only cup seals on all engines I would keep the ring seals too as an extra barrier to oil being burned on engines before 1458447. I can't think of a way of testing the cup type seals without removing or replacing them, so I would recommend you change them and see what happens. I recommend you look at the Ford manual too as it covers things in more detail, although service letters are the only way to get all the information. Always been 5 brackets for the rocker shaft of three types, the centre oil feed type and then two identical outer ones and two with bolts to hold the shaft, this is the normal type, decompressor shafts are more complicated.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by mathias1 »

Henk, it might be worth taking the head off. It will allow you to check the liners for grooves.
Did you ever recondition the engine your self?
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

Mathias,
Once I had the head off because of a small gasket leak. That's all I've done on the engine.
If the new cup seals do not solve the problem, the head will be the next job. Then I check the liners of course. But I think these ar good. If they leak oil, they also would leak air and there should be pressure through the ventilation. That isn't the case.
I've orderd new cup seals and and the end of the week I hope to install them.
Fingers crossed.

The book say 4 cup seals on the inlet valves and non on the outlet valve. Is dat correct? I've ordered 8, because there are 8 on now. Can't do no harm to install 8 is my gues.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

Sandy,
The front pulley had a groove in it, but by using a speedy sleeve the surface is ok now. When I do the job, I will remove the whole front axle and nose together with the side beams. Works better to get the timing cover with the oil seal smootly in place.

Would the rubber ring be a normal O-Ring type.

I'm having a bit of grey smoke.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

The ring seal was a square cross section, but an o-ring might be ok if you can't find a square one. Cup seals were fitted to all valves from 1458447, the ring type seals were not fitted from then onwards, and the valves didn't have the slot for them. I suggest you check bolts to be nice and tight as well, as you'll then possibly eliminate some of your leaks. Is there always smoke or does it depend on what you're doing? The rings might be begining to wear if there's no vacuum under the rocker cover, but see how the new seals do. A leak in the front crank seal will cause poor vacuum too, so if you test the new valve seals before doing the front crank seal you might not notice any improvement of the breathing of the crankcase, once the front crank seal is fixed you should get a change, if not you'll need to check the rings.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by John b »

Forgive me if I'm asking the obvious but are the black spots definitely oil? I have seen black spots which are unburnt fuel mixed with soot caused by bad injectors
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by Billy26F5 »

Also possible, but I would have expected low power as well for that, I don't think Henk mentioned that. Might be worth checking the injectors if the head comes off though.
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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by John b »

agree it would be running rough Sandy, it was just a thought. Sounds alot like worn valve guides if it is oil being thrown out
My biggest fear is that when i die my wife will sell my tractors for what i told her they cost

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

No excuses needed John.
Tractor is running smootly and with power as ever. But checking the injectors is next on my list, together with messuring the compression.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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Re: Cranckcase and oil splashes

Post by henk »

henk wrote:
Sat May 25, 2024 4:46 pm
Also I see in the parts list that the rocker shaft is mounted on 4 brackets and mine has 5.
Just a thought.
There are 4 different brackets. Left, right, midlle and the other 2 are the same. Could be that one of them was left out of the exploded view to get a better view.
Kind regards, Henk

Fordson New Major February 1957 Mark I

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