Fordson Diesel Major Dynamometer Test D Series 2701E

[Stu_Fletch]

After I had my injectors and the injection pump overhauled I wanted to run the tractor back on the dynamometer to check that the fault had be cured and to get it up to full operating temperature. So I've been asked to explain a bit about what i'm doing so for those of you who already know i'm not trying to teach you how to suck eggs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syQAVqJz4kE

So the dynamometer is used in my job as a very valuable tool to help diagnosing faults mainly on the engine whereby the way a/any load can be put on the engine in a safe environment where you can assess the performance of the engine (hp) and torque, the fuel system including running pressures, the cooling system can be tested at the engines working limit to check it is up to the job of keeping it cool, the electrical system including solenoids and sensors on newer engines sometimes need to be hot or under full load to replicate a fault impossible to diagnose in the field, and it is also a good way of checking for leaks as when the engine is up to full operating temperature all the fluids become much thinner and can appear when regular use could take hours weeks months for the leak to start sweating out.

I have never even spotted a weep coming from the head gasket on the \r/h side behind the injection pump which has shown up today.

All of these things can be monitored with gauges etc whilst the engine is under any load you enter into the dynamometer.

Now the dynamometer is quite a simple machine the is a set of PTO shafts to suit any tractor which basically connect your tractor whether running at 540rpm or 1000rpm to a generator, now to put a load onto the tractor through the pto is a huge bank of electrical elements being cooled by a fan driven from a 13amp 230v power socket. To load the tractor you simply use the controller to increase or decrease the load and can be set to keep it at a continuous rpm automatically and it can bet set infinetley from idle to the tractors max rpm say if you wanted to leave a tractor on it to run the engine in whilst you left it to tidy up etc. This is particularly handy as newer tractors are fitted with hydraulic and elctronic ECU controlled viscous couplings on the fan which basically lets it slip and slow down to save fuel consumption and power loss when the air leaving the radiator is cool and it then locks it in when the air leaving the radiator is hot to drive the fan at full speed to keep the engine cool - this draw in power as the fan cuts in hard can draw up to around 20hp on a 200hp+ tractor which if left with a manual load on the tractor could stall it.

The test you can see I carried out was an auto test which just gives you a performance readout/printout through the entire rev range.

Another useful reason to use it is if you have an engine that rarely gets worked hard it can glaze the bores of the cylinders and cause heavy breathing, poor starting and low power due to a lack of compression, a run on the dynamometer can break this glazing and reseal the piston rings to save a big labour intensive strip down and rebuild even if now new parts were fitted.

The particular reason I had my injection pump reconditioned was because whilst in work the engine surged as if it was hunting although I knew the fault wasn't before the injection pump, the last time I used it on the dynamometer the engine surged on any load 3-45hp load until it was under full load now it hold the rpm perfectly and consistently through the rev range I'll put some pics up of the printouts tomorrow and you can browse my youtube channel as I dyno'd all 3 of our tractors

Sorry that was a bit long winded but I hope that covers everything if there's anything I've missed i'm here to help

Cheers

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hello Stu
What results did you get? Just wondering how the more powerful engine performed on the pto compared with the standard engines.
Best, Adrian.

[super6954]

Hi Stu
It runs real nice now, Thanks for posting the video . To be honest I think the figure you got was about 75-80 ish hp. the one i built was a pretty lively tractor, when it was running with a 12ft trailed Deere cultivator on here in Canada .
Regards Robert

[Stu_Fletch]

Hi Adrian here's the results -a little down on what I was hoping for 56.3 max hp and only 33.8hp at 550rpm it could do with a minor tweek on the max fuel screw I think.



Robert the specification in the manual is 71hp at 2500 rpm and allowing for a 10% drop through the driveline and fan gives you 64hp, i'm not sure what condition the valves are it but by the way it fires up from cold I think the compression is fine. Your right it's a very lively responsive and almost aggressive engine... have you got any pictures of yours? it gives the impression it's got more power i dyno'd our 3cyl 4100 and that came out with more toque which led me to wonder if the fuel screw has even been backed off a little!?

The only thing that rang alarm bells was after a warm up on the dyno for 20mins the oil pressure dropped right off to less than 5 psi on idle do obviously there is some work to be done internally so i din't want to open her up until this issue has been addressed.

Cheers

[super6954]

Hi Stu
Sadly I don't have pictures of mine, I Had it running and used it a bit, then got a NPSM to replace it for grass cutting duty.
It was in the workshop having some tidy up/ improvement work done on the front axle& frame rails. it was in the way so dad hooked a chain on the front casting to move it out.
what he failed to do was ask or check if the bolts were in and dropped it when the axle slid out, I had the sump modified so the track rod bar fitted like the original under the pan. it totally destroyed the sump . Its sat out the back for about 6 years and had tractor parts robbed, its under 2ft of snow now, and the motors seized standing, when i looked in the summer . Theres a half built 2704et conversion sitting next to it, but that one still turns over .
Those 4 cyl motors are hard to find in Canada, but i got a semi burnt one from another guy that came over a few years ago. its the bigger head one from a big Thwaites dumper, might be a 2712. I might drag the 2701 and tractor out and try building one motor from 2 and put it together again one day .

My 2701 engine came off a cement truck drum drive when I lived in Wales, it was a pig to start, smoked like a train but had a load of power. I never dynoed it but it pulled as well as our 90 hp Belarus on that cultivator . If you get the bearings changed try again as you say, you can then play with the smoke screw and timing a bit . as you probably know there's a point with fuel, to much doesn't gain anything and hurts power. just for fun pull the air hose to and see if the filter is restricting it. Mine had a paper filter that was pretty big on it, compared to the tractor when i got it, But it seemed to go ok with the tractor one. I wish I had a dyno here I could get in all kinds a trouble playing .
Regards Robert

[AdrianNPMajor]

Very interesting Stu. That's quite an impressive output. To be able to compare, does anyone have the PTO hp figures for the standard engines?
Best, Adrian.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Found the PTO output figure for a NP Super. Fair bit lower than Stuart's Major.
Best, Adrian.

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[guduell]

A perhaps stupid question. Is the rpm in the diagram on the pto? In that case does the engine give about 33hp when the pto revs 540rpm? (The torque curve seem pretty flat)

At what rev is the power stated in the commersial?

[Stu_Fletch]

Yes you'r dead right Guduell my hp at 540PTO / 1200 Engine revs is 33.8 hp Yes I thought that the torque curve was a bit disapointing maybe is because it's a fixed mass governor without a ramp? So a standard diesel major being dyno'd on youtube by Phillip show's 50hp at 880PTO - to mine is 52hp so minimal difference there then... now a Super which Adrian has found the Max PTO HP -47HP I was led to believe was geared the same as a high PTO - 540 @ 1600rpm now correct me if i'm wrong. Which if you take mine across at 1600rpm equates to 720PTO which taken from my readout gives you 45 hp.

Which all adds up to me, as I think mine a few hp off a super major, and according to all the literature I've read my engine is down at least 10hp on it's specifications.

From Tractor Data

Diesel Major :
Drawbar (claimed): 30 hp [22.4 kW]
PTO (claimed): 35 hp [26.1 kW]
Drawbar (tested): 34.2 hp [25.5 kW]
Belt (tested): 38.5 hp [28.7 kW]

Super Major:
Test Date: September 3 - 7, 1963
Type: Diesel 6-speed 2WD
PTO power (rated engine speed): 47.53 hp [35.4 kW]
PTO fuel use (engine speed): 3.1 gal/hour [11.7 l/hour]
PTO power (rated PTO speed): 42.89 hp [32.0 kW]
PTO fuel use (PTO speed): 2.8 gal/hour [10.6 l/hour]
Drawbar power (max): 40.21 hp [30.0 kW]
Drawbar fuel use (max): 3.0 gal/hour [11.4 l/hour]
Drawbar pull (max): 8,128 lbs [3686 kg]
Max pull gear: 1

Now this does show on on the super test the max hp quoted on the brochure was in fact Max PTO Power @Rated Engine speed and NOT 540PTO

Sorry guys learning as I write - Every Day's a School Day! That took some brain power !

Cheers Fletch

[AdrianNPMajor]

This gives more info. Seems to confirm your data, Stu.
Best, Adrian.

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[Pavel]

Stu, I believe I should point out, if you are not already aware, that the details you are referencing are taker from the Nebraska [USA] report no. 685 of January 1959. These are different to the UK NIAE reports [no 206 for the Power Major and 275 for the Super]. Not only were the cetane nos [power output] of diesel fuel different in the US [51] than that in the UK then; they still are. As well diesel fuel power outputs today are different [slightly lower] to what they were then in both countries. Therefore your PTO power output results will also be slightly less than the original.
.

Pavel.