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Author
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Topic: 6 cilinder
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backer
True Blue Posts: 22
From: belgium
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted February 27, 2003 20:39
   
I bought a fordson with a 6 cilinder 5.95 L can somebody tell me how much hp it is and in witch machines this type of motor was usedIP: Logged |
johan van son
True Blue Posts: 9
From: Nieuwkuijk, N. Brabant, Nederland
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted March 12, 2003 19:13
quote:
Originally posted by backer:
I bought a fordson with a 6 cilinder 5.95 L can somebody tell me how much hp it is and in witch machines this type of motor was used
i have also a 363 cui (wich is 5.95 litres) 6 cilinder in mine Super Major, mine is 98 kw, that's the same as 133 hp whit a MINEMEC injector pump, there are also 85 kw engines built. they where used in Thames Trader trucks, and also in Iveco trucks for the Englisch market. details of the engine are not at my knowledge, but i know that there is a air compressor and a powersteering pump assambled under the injectorpump.
also they have a aluminium undercarter, wich means that the front axle triangel does'nt fit, i've seen that people place the triangle forward and connect it to the front, i strongly disapprove this, because all the force on the frontaxle is now taken to the frontweight, instead of spread between the frontweight and the engine.
to come back to the hp issue, i don't know if it's possible to see on the outside if you have a 85 or a 98 kw. engine, i know because i have taken it out of a 98 kw. truck. wich can be told by the truck number.
my number is:826F7FDA28/d/86A i have never on the internet found a site to recall these numbers so i don't know what they mean.
success whit your Major, hope i informed you enough to recall your hp IP: Logged |
backer
True Blue Posts: 22
From: belgium
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted March 16, 2003 19:27
thanks for the information. My motor is coming out of an air compressor I have two motors one with a MIMEC pump and the other witch is build into my FSM is a SIMMS pump do you now what the difference are ? the front axle triangle is nice rebuilt and placed to the back !
IP: Logged |
johan van son
True Blue Posts: 9
From: Nieuwkuijk, N. Brabant, Nederland
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted March 17, 2003 18:53
quote:
Originally posted by backer:
thanks for the information. My motor is coming out of an air compressor I have two motors one with a MIMEC pump and the other witch is build into my FSM is a SIMMS pump do you now what the difference are ? the front axle triangle is nice rebuilt and placed to the back !
the difference between your two engines is that the one whit the MINEMEC pump is one of 363 cubic inches or 5.95 liters, the one whit the SIMMS pump, which is a VACUUM controlled injectorpump, is 330 Cubic inches or 5.4 liters, and it is about 90 HP. it's nice to hear that you have a good constructed triangle, so that you'll never have problems whit the frontaxle. hope i informed you enough!! IP: Logged |
backer
True Blue Posts: 22
From: belgium
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted March 23, 2003 22:01
On my motor the one with the simms pump the plate say it's a 5.95L but one my other motor the one with the minemec has no plate on it but I think the bothe are the same or is the one with the minemec a 5.4LIP: Logged |
johan van son
True Blue Posts: 9
From: Nieuwkuijk, N. Brabant, Nederland
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted March 24, 2003 20:13
as far as i know only 5.4 liter engine's were equiped whit a SIMMS pump, there were 5.4 engine's whit MINEMEC too, but as far as i know were there no 5.95 engines whit SIMMS pump, so i cannot say if your engine whit MINEMEC pump is 5.4 or 5.95
but i'm now not so sure anymore
but to me it's very unlikely that a 5.95 liter engine has a SIMMS pump, especialy because the 5.95 engines are the succesor of the 5.4 engines, and also the MINEMEC pump is the succesor of the SIMMS pump
so if a 5.95 liter engine is equiped whit a SIMMS pump it would be a new engine whit a old pump, i don't say it's impossible but it's to me unlikely. in that case it could be that your original injector pump was broken down and someone has switced it for a SIMMS pump or something like that, my 5.95 liter engine is from 1986, and the SIMMS pump was only used till 1962, and as far as i know the 5.95 engine is only built since 1965
but i can be mistaken in this, but can you tell me what your engine plate ecactly says
Johan IP: Logged |
Brian
Rules All Things Blue Posts: 2824
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted March 25, 2003 11:07
Chaps,I am not an expert on these engines. I only worked 6 months on the lorry side of the dealership. However I can correct a few misconceptions. Simms made both pumps so Simms is not an identification of a pump. The earlier Simms pump is a vaccum governed pump with two pipes to the intake manifold. The later pump used was a Simms Minimec. Like the Super Majors both types of pump were used on the lorry or industrial engine, later engines being equiped with the Simms Minimec pump. Also, like the Major range the only changes to the engine were limited to ancillary equipment like pumps and cylinder heads, there were no changes in the cubic capacity of the engine. The extra power in the engines was achieved by better air flow and pump and timing adjustments. The only other changes took place in 1964 with the introduction of the 2700 range of engines which are similar to the "D" series truck engines. The expert on all these engines is Stephen B from Australia. He has made a study of the truck side of Ford and has a large collection of data. I will mail him and get his comments for you. regards Brian. PS I modified a number of Supers and fitted 6 cylinder motors. I also reversed the "wishbone" and fitted it to the front weight after modification by shortening it and rewelding then mounting it in a proper bearing. I also increased the strenght of the side members. One of my modified units is still in farm work on a three furrow plough and a Howard Roto Spreader 29 years after the mods were done. No weakness has shown up yet. IP: Logged |
backer
True Blue Posts: 22
From: belgium
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted March 25, 2003 21:09
The model is 2713E fuel system AA RPM 1250-2500 Block A
Date/sernr S 974221
Buildnr 11P/31B/1E0/100 5
on the pump the number is P5088/2A NS 20° the number on the simms and the minemec pump is the same.
can somebody also tell me how old the motor is ?IP: Logged |
Brian
Rules All Things Blue Posts: 2824
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted March 26, 2003 07:32
Backer,The engine you have is not the 590E engine that was usually fitted to the Super and came from the Thames Trader. Your engine is an industrial unit built in the late 1970's to 1980's based on the "D" series truck engine. It will not have a vaccum governed pump but may have a version of the Simms pump with an external governor especially if it came from a combine harvester. Not much can be gathered on date data as there are no records and the hp can be adjusted by fueling. I would suspect she is between 90 and 120 hp. regards Brian IP: Logged |
johan van son
True Blue Posts: 9
From: Nieuwkuijk, N. Brabant, Nederland
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted March 26, 2003 22:16
i have documentary from new holland about the engine block's, that means only about piston's and cilinderliners, and so on, nothing mentioned about injectorpump or that sort of things, that documentary mentions that ther are 2 engine block type's, 330 cui, and 360 cui, and a small enlargement by bigger piston's to 363 cui, and i've seen it once that 2 fordson engine's were overhauled at the same time ( the person were i saw it had baybe a dozen six cilinder or more) and there were difference's between crankshafts, journal diameter and stroke were different, at that time (5 years ago, i'm now only 20 years old) i dind't think about it, as i was not yet interested in 6 cilinder's and sure didn't think i would own 1 later so i didn't ask if it was original or a "stroked" engine but i sure now there were differences between the 2 engine's
for the triangle, ibe seen 1 whit a inverted triangle, witch had a bump against a tree (not very smart ofcourse) but the frontweight was pushed back and after that the axle was twisted, but as far a syou make no exidents i don't think it will be a problem, but as i intended to use my FSM on the farm, were a exident can happen, i don't want to construct it like that, mine will be placed in the undercarter of the engine, also because it's my intension to make it look original as far as possible.
IP: Logged |
Steven B
True Blue Posts: 73
From: Gisborne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted March 31, 2003 12:42
I will list all 6 cylinder engines built by Ford from 1957 trought to 1980. Engines produced after 1980 up until about 1992 for the Ford Cargo series trucks are generly the same as those produced in the 1970s but with more power.First thing, ALL engines have a 115mm stroke. All engines have the same bore spacing. Some publications quote the stroke as 114.7mm and some 114.9mm. Thats about all thats common. The numbers contradict depending on what version of manual you look at. I am using the late 1970s version in this case. 1957 to 1961. 330 CID (5.4 litre), wet sleeve,100mm bore. Simms injector pump with vacum govenor. Injector pump is mounted towards the rear of the engine with an exposed drive shaft. Max power 100hp at 2400 rpm. Power output dependent on max speed set on indutrial version (about 85hp at 1800rpm). This is the 590E type fitted to mark one Thames Trader trucks. 1962 to 1965 330 CID wet sleeve, as per engine above but with "FL" head, Simms Minimec pump and modified block and sleeves. Max hp 108hp at 2400 rpm. Used in the Mark two Thames Trader FC and the Thames Trader NC. This engine is also fitted to the Fordson County Super Six 1965 to 1969 330 CID or 5.4 litre (100mm bore) and 360 CID or 6 litre(105mm bore) Dry sleeves, injector pump mounted on timing case. Oil pump relocated and driven from camshaft. 330CID was max 102.5 at 2800rpm hp and 360CID max 113.5 at 2800rpm. These engines were used in the D series and K series trucks as well as the R Series busses. Also fitted to the County 954 and 1004 From about 1969 a Turbo 360 was introduced. This engine is a modified 360CID and has stronger connecting rods and cylinderhead bolts with chrome cylinder liners. It remained in production untill 1980 and was 141.5hp at 2400rpm. This engine was used in the D Series trucks and R series busses. In 1970 the 330 engine was replaced by a "365" CID 6 litre and a 380 CID 6.2 litre engine with a 107mm bore. These engines were parent bore, that is no sleeves. 365 6 litre was 103hp at 2800rpm anr the 380 was 113hp at 2800rpm. The Turbo engine remained the same. Also used in D, K and R series trucks/busses. You must take into account that the method of mesuring hp changed in the 1970's where the hp was mesured with some ancilary equipent added. I own many of these engines in trucks and they include 1957 330cid, 1962 330cid, 1970 365 CID and 1978 280 CID. All are good engines. Also note that all D Series engines are inclined at 45deg while Thames, K and R series engines are upright. Regards Steven.
[This message has been edited by Steven B (edited March 31, 2003).] IP: Logged |
johan van son
True Blue Posts: 9
From: Nieuwkuijk, N. Brabant, Nederland
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted April 05, 2003 21:22
i now know that i have a 1988 fordson D engine. it is 45 degree angled, and came out of a Ford Cargo 813. the truck id said it is a 6 liter 98kw engine. the engine has a different camshaft distribution, whit a injector pump (CAV LUCAS MINEMEC, ser. nr.: KE00675A5) screwed on the distribution, it has no long shaft. it has a electronic safety between the oil pressure valve and the injector pump. it also has an air compressor and a powersteeringpump under the injectorpump. also there is a coolingwater outlet above the flywheel, and returns by a pipe along the injectorpump side. it also has a electronic rpm drive. and a much larger coolingwater pump compared to the major engine. for the rest it is the same exept the under carter, that has a large 45 degree down angle whit a big capacitie, about 20 litres, and a much larger oil filter, the rest is in general the same as my 4 cilinder major engineIP: Logged |
Steven B
True Blue Posts: 73
From: Gisborne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted April 06, 2003 02:07
JohanI have little knowledge of the Cargo series truck engines other than the fact that they are an updated version of the D series engine. Here in Australia a Cargo engine second hand is worth more than a D Series of the same capacity so I must assume they are not identical. What I do know is that the capacities are the same, 6 litre, 6.2 litre and 6 litre turbo. The description you have given could also describes the 6.2 litre diesel I have in my 1978 D1211 (12 =12 tonnes gross, 11 =112hp) You say it came out of a Cargo 0813. This tells me the 08 = 8 tonnes gross and the 13 =130hp+ but less than 140hp. Belive me, the engine may look a bit like the Fordson engine but there are no parts interchangeble, it is a diffrent engine. You must remember that this family of engines grew out of the engine designed by Laurie Mateland for use in the Fordson Thames trucks and Fordson E1A tractors and can trace its origines back to 1950. Best Regards
Steven B IP: Logged |
johan van son
True Blue Posts: 9
From: Nieuwkuijk, N. Brabant, Nederland
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted April 07, 2003 22:31
thanks for your information, i have noticed that there are many difference, the oil suction (i've just taken of the undercarter, i'm going to rebuild it in steel, and make it suitebel for a tractor) is at the back 45 degree down angled, but i'm goning to make a new suction pipe whit the original suction filteralso the cooling water system is much differend. and these valves seems to have different valve rotators. but i haven't realy compared them yet. i do know that i must re construct the oil filter to make it fit into my super major, but it can be done. i now must find out what the new oil level will be, can you tell me the level of a strait up engine, compared to the center of the crankshaft, i think it must be almost 100 mm below the center but i can't find it out exactly. for the rest it is a nice engine, the pistons are nice and clean and the valves are in good condition, the injector pump is in perfect condition, the km. display said it had only drove 177.000 km
that is in my eyes not so far. regards
johan IP: Logged | |
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