Standard N engine seized!!

steve01 · Post by **steve01** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:06 pm

Hello folks
I think these forums are great, i restored me first tractor, a David Brown 990, bout 2 years ago, i registered with the DB forum and emails practically restored her for me!! Amazing invention the internet!
Anyhow i have a standard in the sick bay now think shes bout 1939-40 cant find the serial num, now in my quest for help i have found you guys so i will be greatful of any feedback!
I got this tractor of my brother in law, who when his father died 5 years ago, lost all interest in the vintage scene. A year after his fathers death we took both his standards to the local rally for a run both where fine an drive well, a few weeks later we went to start one of them and she was totally stuck no movement in the handle at all. The gears were free as she could be pushed ok so we took the plugs out an poured petrol down into the cylinders but no movement at all.
That was 4 years ago an the poor yoke has lay in a shed since and i think outside for 6months or so to! Now i have her stripped down i have the head off and the pistons and liners seem clean enough, i drained the sump and found bout a cup full of water in the oil.
So were do i go next would it be the shaft seized, i can see how it comes out but before starting is there anything scarey invloved or anything to avoid doing wrong???

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:42 pm

Hello Steve,

First of all, welcome to "our" board.

We have some E27N 's around here, with basically the same engine.

We have a spare parts donor E27N which engine was rusted solid. We freed it up with coke on the pistons for a couple off days and then easily turning the starting lever and a bar in the ring gear on the flywheel, that was quite easy. But there it was a piston cilinder problem.
When we drained the oil, there was I think 2 litres of water in, and the crank etc was free.

As your pistons don't seem to be the problem, there might be a problem with the distrubution gears in front for example.

May be you should take the sump of and the distribution cover and then you might see the problem.

Good luck,

Emiel

steve01 · Post by **steve01** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:46 pm

Hi
Thanks for welcome

When you say "coke" do you mean the cola drink?

I had tried WD40 on the pistons!

Is it a big job to take off sump etc? Im a 27 year old electrician with very little mechanical knowledge

am i getting in to deep?

Regards

Steve

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:55 pm

Hello Steve,

I'm an 27 year old engineer with an "desk" job.

You should bear in mind that these tractors were built for farmers who traded their horses in for a tractor.

Taking the sump of just requires draining the oil and take out ALL bolts and it should come down easilly. Be carefull, it is really heavy.

Yes, I indeed mean the "cola drink". That realy works.

Best regards

steve01 · Post by **steve01** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:54 pm

As they say ya cant beat a tryer! Im gonna take into that today see how i get on.
I'll keep yas posted

cheers

steve

steve01 · Post by **steve01** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:03 pm

Hi
Well i got a good bit of work done today, i removed the distribution cover all was fine looking there, the gog for the mag is slightly pitted but no teeth missing. Then removed the sump and had a good look with the torch all looks nice and oily no sign of rusting or breakages, so i think it must still be the pistons. All the pistons are in the down position, two of the liners have some surface rust top and bottom so i have filled the cylinders up with coke see how that goes!
Also i noticed when taking of the distribution cover there seems to be like a paper gasket around it would this need replacing and with what??
A mechanic told me that the head gasket should be replaced aswell but its seems to be copper and in very good condition just needs a clean in my opinion? What do yas think should it be done and where would i get one???????

Regards

Steve

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:24 am

Hello,

Are all pistons in the down position? Are you sure?

When you have the sump of, you can see the camshaft, is that OK too?

There is an inspection cover on the right hand side of the engine, behind the manifold. It is fixed with two bolts, then you can see the valves, may be you can find there a clue to your problem.

When you have freed up the engine, then you can reassemble.

For the sump and distri cover you need to make new gaskets from gasket paper. Not a big job, just buy gasket paper, roll it out over the sump and with a little hamer you'll can "tick" the gasket out of the paper. Disti Cover the same. Fit the new gaskets with a very light coat of liquid gasket on both sides. But very very little off course. Do not use liquid gasket only, this will give problems with your front crank seal (in theory at least).

I''m not sure about reusing the head gasket, but I think we did it on ours too. Clean up everything carefully, clean out the bolt holes carefully and give it a try. When it doesn't work it is an half an hour job to fit an new head gasket.

Let the coke in for at least three days, in the mean time you can try to rotate the engine a little. May be backwards works better then in the running direction.

Can you post some pictures here?

Best regards

Emiel

steve01 · Post by **steve01** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:23 pm

Another good days work at the tractor, i made up a long bar and attached to the crank and with a few good push and pulls it eventually started to move (A VERY NICE FEELING INDEED).

So srayed plenty of WD40 on and swung until nice and free. Now i have all nicely cleaned up and ready for back on! Done good inspection with a flood lamp and everything else seems to be ok no breakages or rust!

I was unable to get gasket paper big enough in 1 piece to go round the sump so they give me "INSTANT GASKET" in a can will this be ok??

When the time comes how do i test the magneto the plugs and leads are still fitted there are 2 levers 1 at the front and 1 at the back what position do they need to be in??

Also is there a standard procedure to starting the tractor, in simple terms for a beginner??

Regards

Steve

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:02 pm

Hello,

The "instant gasket" is the liquid gasket I ment.

Usually, you can make a gasket for the left hand side of the sump, and a right hand one, and a vertical one. The two horizontal halves joint in front near the rope crank shaft seal. At the back end, the vertical one, in one piece. The corner of the casting, where the two gaskets (vertical and horizontal) meet is the critical point in the seat, but there the instant gasket will help sealing it.

So the gasket paper doesn't need to be very wide, you can make 3 seperate ones.

Without the paper, the sump will be to high up, giving trouble with the horizontal bolts and destroying your front rope seal probably.

Best regares

Emiel

pjjms · Post by **pjjms** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:10 am

I know the thread is getting old and the engine may be together now but just some thoughts on the copper head gasket. Copper hardens with time which is why old copper washers etc tend to leak. The cure is to return the metal to its soft state, aneal it.

With copper this is done by heating it dull red hot and then dropping in cold water. It will come out looking like new and soft. Use a big water container as cooling must happen rapidly.

2 things to be aware of. Copper does not glow very red so doing it at dusk is much easier. Secondly, different metals require different methods to aneal. For example heating carbon steel red hot and quenching will make it go hard. So dont try this with steel.

steve01 · Post by **steve01** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:29 pm

Thanks for that!
I havent made much progress since christmas the head is still off and currently cleaning up the valves when i get time!
I took off the vapouriser and manifold and everything was full of water an corroded, also opened the air cleaner oil bath an a bucket full of water poured out before any oil came! So at this rate it could be christmas 2011 before she fires up again!

I just aquired a set of ferguson 9 tine grubbers so restoring them too to make a quick shilling!

Thanks for everyones advice up to now i have learnt a good bit bout the old girl, its the only way to get stuck in and tinker about!

Regards

Steven

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:34 pm

A few tips. I have used old head gaskets in stuff as far back as the 1920's without a problem, as long as they are good and without damage. Also, you can use silicone (Permetex) between the cut sections of the gaskets to help seal it. Sounds like she was stuck with a little surface rust in the cylinders. This gas that we are getting over here with the corn alcohol in it seems to wash/ burn the oil from the cylinders more and they seem to rust up faster if they get any condensation at all inside of them. Pull the plugs and put a few pumps of oil in the cylinders if you do not plan on running it for 6 months or more.

Welcome Aboard,

Dandy Dave!

Martijn · Post by **Martijn** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:02 am

Hey,
It's possible to use the old head gasket..
Just use a good heatresistant instant gasket.
Don't use to much as surplus instant gasket will get into the cylinder when you tighten the head bolts.

Greetings,
Martijn
Holland