Leaking head gasket

henk · Post by **henk** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Hello,

After working on my major trough the winter, I have made a test ride yesterday. Today I was disappointed because I found that there are two oil leaks. One is between the block and head on the right front side just above the fuel pump. (the upper red line on the picture) I had notice it before but thought it was the fuel pipe connection on the injector. So now it seems to be a leaking gasket I think. That means removing the head.
Do I have to remove and tighten the head bolts in a special order of rank?
Witch gasket do I need. My engine number is before 1425097. That’s when they changed the copper asbestos in a thin steel gasket. Is de gasket still copper asbestos or is there a replacement?
I will bring up the other problem on a new topic.

John · Post by **John** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:42 pm

Have you put on a new head gasket? Regardless, rather than take off the head, you may solve the problem by re-tightening the head bolts, and there IS an order to do it - need to check.

henk · Post by **henk** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:43 pm

John,

Havent put on a new gasket yet.

Post by **Brian** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:02 pm

The metal gasket has not been available for at least 45 years! The copper/asbestos one is also not readily available.

Most gasket kits have the Klinger type composite gasket which is an excellent one. We used to use them way back in the 1960's. Its the one I fitted to Henrietta.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:14 pm

Hi Henk! The head bolt tightening sequence is on page 46 of the operators manual and that might be all it needs. I have been lucky this way on a few occasions and had the re-torquing stop the leak. Good luck!

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:29 am

Hello Henk,

We had a little sweating on the head gasket of our 5610 when we bought it. It was used on ligth duties. After we started doing some serious work with it, it stopped and never reoccured the time we had it.

Best regards

Emiel

henk · Post by **henk** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:37 am

Thanks guys,

This is a great help.
I will re- torq the bolts and see if this will do.

Emiel, It's a bit more than sweating. Wish I could do some heavy work with the major.

Foxen · Post by **Foxen** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:52 am

About re-torquing the bolts, are you supposed to back them off a bit and then torque them or just torque them without backing off? Mine's dribbling a little oil at the same place as yours(below #1 injector), I always thought it was because of the rubber boots that's around the injector inlet but obviously not...

henk · Post by **henk** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:01 am

Kim,

I was planning to only torque them.
I was always thinking the same about the injector.
Keep you posted about the results.

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:05 pm

Foxen wrote:About re-torquing the bolts, are you supposed to back them off a bit and then torque them or just torque them without backing off? Mine's dribbling a little oil at the same place as yours(below #1 injector), I always thought it was because of the rubber boots that's around the injector inlet but obviously not...

Don't back them off. Just tighten them to the specified pounds. If you do not have a bolt sequence diagram Just start from the center bolts and work out crossing from side to side. When Installing a head, I usually do the tourque in three steps. For instance. if the total touque is 90 pounds, I will first tighten it down to 30, and then 60, and then the the rest of the way. Let it sit for a bit and then re-check it. I've done a lot of motors this way and have not gone wrong yet. Always good to re-check it after it has been run up to temperature once or twice. Dandy Dave!

henk · Post by **henk** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:09 pm

This evening I checked the torque from the head bolts. They were thigh enough. So I dismantled the head. I had no time to lift it of and could not see how the gasket was.
Is it all right to lift the head over the valve rods or can and is it better to remove them first?
I read in the parts list that there is a seal washer under the gasket. Should I replace this to? And if yes are they available?

Emiel · Post by **Emiel** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:07 pm

Henk,

I think you allready did it, but just to be sure this post.

Take out the injectors before you lift of the head. That because when you lay down the head on a desk with the injectors in, they will get damaged.

Best regards

Emiel

Post by **Brian** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:50 pm

Take the push rods out Henk, they only lift straight up. The head comes off easily but I would advise to have some locating bolts when you put it back on to hold the gasket in place.

henk · Post by **henk** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:01 am

Emiel,

I knew that, so I will put it on two blocks.

Brian,

Should I replace the rods in the same order?

Do I have to renewe the sealings E26-CA-5 and 6053 under the gasket also?

Dandy Dave · Post by **Dandy Dave** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:37 pm

After removing the head I would also check it to be sure it is not warped. You can do this yourself with a good straight edge, and a light aimed at it from behind. If any light shows though use some feeler gages to see how far out it is. Dandy Dave!

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:12 pm

Hello to all. I noticed the same leak and had already thought I may have to replace head gasket. I was thinking I read in a manual that I have to remove the rocker assembly before the head. I know it is easy to remove push rods but not to sure about the rocker assembly. Is this correct or can you remove the head with rocker assembly attached? Thanks
Gerald

henk · Post by **henk** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:40 pm

Dandy Dave,

I was planning to do so. We teach the children to do so at our school.

Seems a weak spot were the head is leaking as we are with three now.

Gman,
I did not remove the rocker assembly, but I was talking to a friend a he told me to dissemble the rocker assembly before putting the head back.

Post by **Brian** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:51 pm

Its much easier to remove everything first. We always used to when servicing the tractor and a head gasket would take us about 1.5 to 2hrs from start to having her running again.

I would advise replacing the seal Henk. OK you may not bother but the important thing is to remember to fit either the old one or a new one. It is easy to miss it when you put her back together.

The spot where they leak is where the rockers and pushrods throw the oil about. It is not under pressure and ther is no gasses escaping. Just nasty black oil. A little gasket sealant along that edge when you put her back together will help seal her for another 50 years.

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:25 pm

henk wrote:Dandy Dave,

I was planning to do so. We teach the children to do so at our school.

Seems a weak spot were the head is leaking as we are with three now.

Gman,
I did not remove the rocker assembly, but I was talking to a friend a he told me to dissemble the rocker assembly before putting the head back.

Thanks Henk, I do not remember her with the leak some yeas ago when she was parked but like her I'm getting old and the memory not the best. It has rained so much here I have not been able to really work her this winter. My next major work is on the hydraulic pump, hopefully nothing else goes wrong but with her sitting so long and once I work her hard all day I may encounter more problems. Thanks for the advice. If you were able to remove the head without removing rocker assembly do you know why it is suggested to remove before you replace the head? Again thanks. Good luck with yours.

henk · Post by **henk** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:55 pm

Thanks Brian,

It will take me a bit longer to do the job, but that’s no problem.
The round seal was not soft anymore and there were cracks in it, so after removing it was completely gone. I could not see any damage on the head gasket at the place it was leaking. I will put some gasket sealant on it.
I experienced myself it's better to remove the rocker axle and it's very easy to do.

GMan,
When placing the head back the rockers will hold the head about 5 mm above the block. It's better and easier to let the head rest on the block and than start tightening it.

When the head came of I found some bits of an old temp meter inside the hole. When I wanted to clean it a small peace fell into the water pump, so I had to remove it to. The sealing broke. So from one comes another.

I notice that piston 1 and 3 was black and 2 and 4 where a bit white. What could that mean? It was the same on the head.
The head and valves where not clean but had some cool on it. Also black and white.
The tips of the injectors were dirty.

Post by **Brian** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:06 am

The conditions you found on pistons etc. are mainly because you are doing no heavy work.

This is why I always say you must work the engine as hard as possible. Even if you did a complete engine overhaul it would still look the same in there.

Do not clean the tops of the pistons or the carbom from around the top of the liners in the bore. If you do, it will increase your problem.

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:52 pm

Thanks Henk. Good luck on the repairs.

Foxen · Post by **Foxen** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Brian wrote:The conditions you found on pistons etc. are mainly because you are doing no heavy work.

This is why I always say you must work the engine as hard as possible. Even if you did a complete engine overhaul it would still look the same in there.

Do not clean the tops of the pistons or the carbom from around the top of the liners in the bore. If you do, it will increase your problem.

Would it hold some kind of validity that a engine that hasn't been worked properly for some time might improve somewhat if you start working it with proper work(without abusing it of course)? She's a little grumpy about starting when cold, works a charm when running tho, no noticeable noises and quite some torque to put on the wheels...

Post by **Brian** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:06 pm

A diesel engine always works best at around maximum torque point, about PTO revs, and under full load. Stop/start operations and lots of ticking over at low revs causes problems. Oil "slobber" from the exhaust and low power are just two of the things that can occur.

In the dealership, as vegetables and sugar beet started to be drilled and the inter-row hoes came out of the shed, oil started to come out of the exhausts of all makes of tractor.

In the autumn, when everyone was ploughing and cultivating like mad, all the problems would disappear, the carbon in the exhausts would be hard and light grey in colour and the engines would have a sharp "crack" to them.

I saw, time and time again, engines run under light loads, that failed at low hours and ones that were "thrashed" from day one, go on for years and years.

In the trade, there is a saying, "Don't by a car from a careful old lady owner who only drove at 30 mph". Those cars, whilst looking good, always failed under "normal" driving. The same is true for tractors. Because they are retired and do not get worked, they will exhibit the symptoms of oil "slobber" and, in some cases, oil burning.

That is why I like to work mine as hard as possible when ever I can.

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:09 pm

Hey Brian, good info that I needed to know. As I was getting my power major back running last year I let her sit an idle, mostly at low rpm. When I bought her 25 years ago the cable was missing, therefore never have known actual rpm, just always judged by sound and amount of throttle I gave her. She seems to still have good power, I have pulled some 75 year old pine trees out of my yard which were quite large. As you know I'm still trying to learn, what do you mean by maximum torque point? I guess the best thing I can do as soon as it dries up around here is try to work her all day. The main work I have for her is bush hogging, would this be considered working her under full load or should I just hook up one of these trees and drag it around for a good period of time. As always your knowledge is greatly appreciated. Without your help she would be sitting or as my dad told me, just sale as junk. Again thanks.
Gerald