Oil in Radiator

[Jim Shunt]

Hello. I'm a newbie , great forum! Ihave a problem which has me stumped. Could a hole in the core plug underneath the rocker shaft be the cause of oil being drawn into the water system? Oil is pouring out of the radiator overflow?

[super6954]

Hi Im not sure what core plug you mean as I cant ever remember seing one under the rocker shaft on my majors that would let oil in the radiator. It is more likely a head gasket problem as there is a rubber seal between the head and block that seals an oil way up to the top of the engine and i guess that is leaking oil past into the water jacket.
Regards Robert

[Jim Shunt]

Hi Robert

Thanks for your response. I've tried everything , including changing the gasket, assisted by other tractor owners, who have never come accross this problem.
Under the rocker shaft are 4 core plugs , and one has a small hole in it. They act like shallow cups, that fill with oil when the engine is running. The oil isn't under pressure, it simply returns back to the sump. I'm thinking that as the water pump draws the water out of the engine, to recirculate , it might be drawing oil in at the same time.
The old lady is a Fordson Major 5000 , circa 1963.

I think I might have solved the problem , but before I spend another wasted day , I thought maybe someone else may have come accross the problem.

Regards
Jim

[super6954]

Hi Jim Im glad you think you found the problem what was it?
I also have a fordson 5000 of around the same age and just re built the motor. I have a spare head and rocker shaft on the shop floor that I just looked at and I cant find those plugs something is odd here.
I was thinking about what you said and I would of thought if oil was leaking in water would come out in the oil as well as header pressure would force out water into the motor Just my thought on it.( im only a dumb mechanic lol) .
Regards Robert

[Jim Shunt]

That's just what I'm thinking , why, (if it is the hole that's the pronlem,) isn't the water coming through into the oil.

I'm a retired motor mechanic myself , and must confess to quite enjoying solving a good mystery. The head is going back on tomorrow, fingers crossed. Will post news, good or bad.

You're saying that you've never seen these four core plugs before. Wonder if Canadian Fordson's are different to Scottish ones?

Cheers.

Jim

[Brian]

Welcome Jim,

I think you must have a 5000 from after 1965. These had the core plugs under the rocker shaft but the Fordson Major had a solid head.

It is actually a totally different tractor but Fords confused things by calling the 1965 tractors "Super Major 5000". On this board we call them "The World Series" because it is the same tractor made in Basildon, Antwerp and Highland Park, with parts shipped from one place to the other and assembled at each location. The other designation is the "X" and later the "Y" series.

I have never heard of those plugs leaking internally but have seen the external ones fail many times. Usually antifreeze drips out of the clutch housing.

[Tmac]

.
I had a problem like this on my 54 FMD, turned out there was a small crack in the top of the #4 cylinder liner. The crack was small but let oil into the water, not that if was flowing out, but enough. I repaired by brazing the crack with a easy flow high strength alloy. That was back in 93 or 94. It seemed to work well up till about 2 years ago, now it is doing the same thing with a bit of coolant getting into the cyl. It is now time for another liner sorry to say. ;((

So the next time you have the head off check the tops of the liners. These small cracks are sometimes hard to find you cant just see them. A crack like this wont leak coolant but under compression leaks oil. I used Zyglo, UV light dye penetrate system, to find it. The Zyglo system is commonly used on aircraft.

.

[John]

Oddly enough, when I bought my '56 FMD last year, we got the price down even lower because of oil in the rad. Fairly thick around the neck and filler cap.

But the water has been changed twice (second time for new hoses), and the tractor has completed two long rallies, as well as several other road runs. No more oil and not a drop of water used.

Don't know what the original problem was and not complaining, as it's not there now.

[jreid8]

Hello folks,

This is a very late additional comment that might be useful for buyers of old Fordsons.

I recently bought a 54 Fordson from a very elderly retired farmer living in the Australian Goldfields. He was in his younger years a very well known agricultural engineer having developed some of the widely used harvesting technologies in the Australian wheat belt. Needless to say he had kept the old girl in very good order.

I thought it wise to recheck the oil and water levels after I had run her for about 4 hours driving a saw bench. Even though the dipstick was exactly as it was, when I checked the water I noticed a bit of the greeny slime in the radiator that would suggest there was oil in it.

Google to the rescue....where I found this site.

Reading the above, I was prepared for the worst, but thought I would get my even more eledrly neighbour who still has the Fordsons that replaced his working team of Clydesdales in running order in in his barn.

He had a quick look and immediately advised me that, there was nothing wrong. A small amount of oil sludge was only to be expected as during the 50's and 60's it was commonplace for both owners and service centres to put a little vegetable/organic oil in the radiator to stop problems with the water pump developing.

"Some folks still do it" he said.

I managed to contact the original owner, and sure enough, after each flush and water change, he always popped a bit of oil into the water....

I have now run the old girl about 8 hours more, and no sign of any further deterioration, so it appears my issue was not an issue at all.

I know others have clearly had actual problems that accounted for the oil in the radiator, but noticed that John had visible oil in the radiator that following a flush never reappeared....perhaps adding a few drops of oil to the water was something practiced in areas other than my own.

I would certainly suggest anyone buying an old girl with signs of oil in the radiator expect the worst, but as John did, try a flush before anything else in case it is just residual from strange old maintenance methods.

Cheers
JR

[Pavel]

Further to JR's post.
A few years ago I went on a course at a radiator specialist in Perth [WA] who, amongst other things, strongly recommended the inclusion of a few drops of oil being placed into the cooling system after each annual flush and re-fill. They said that it helps to keep the impeller shaft rubber seal pliable and the carbon faced bearing from wearing.
The oil recommended was that mixed in water as used on lathes as a lubricant and coolant.
I should add that most good modern inhibitors include a lubricant -- but I'm not sure if anti-freeze would include it.

Pavel.

[oehrick]

Welcome Jim and I hope you have solved your problem, if not, is the sump breather clear? if not you might be getting sump pressure through one of the wet liner O rings - assuming they are wet linered like the E1A's - if you've a non pressure rad cap fitted this wouldn't need much pressure (I was warned against using a pressurised cap on my '58 E1A by David at Mid Norfolk Tractors for the reverse reason, not dumping coolant into the sump past the (original) O rings which may have softened.............

Best of luck

Rick