tracing registration numbers.

[eric]

hello, i have recently bought a fordson major, E1A.
i have no idea to her history, only that she is likely to have been used new in the north shropshire area. i have used info from earlier posts to find her engine number, and various casting numbers.
the current engine is stamped under number 1 injector, and is an S stamp, suggesting that she has had a replacement engine at some time. however, the original engine number is still in place on a plate on the firewall. using this i have dated her to late march, 1958.
does anyone know if it is possible to trace her original registration using this information? and if so, how do i go about it please?

[Brian]

Welcome to the board.

You can find the details if you have a reg.number but it will be nearly impossible to trace details with just a tractor number. County records only work if you have a number they issued. Coud you locate any previous owners?

With the engine/serial number from the plate and the casting numbers you will find it easy to get an age related number. Take pictures of them and the tractor for the DVLA.

[Nick]

My major had no identifcation on it when i got it. but because they used to paint the number plates on back then, when i was sand blasting it, i found them underneath the layer of crud. but like brian says, if you cant find one anywhere, it will be hard to trace.

[JohnnyBoy]

My Fergie came with number plates on but when I tried to trace the number from the old Kent county council’s records, they told me it had been given to a Vespa scooter.

[eric]

thanks for your help on that, but can you take me a step further please? as i am totally lost as to the correct proceedures here.
if i photograph all the numbers i have found, what do i do next? can i just apply to DVLA with the information i have? or do i have to follow some special proccedures to register her?
the guy i bought her off is very reluctant to divulge any information to her history at all. all he will say is he bought her "locally".
i am also hoping to buy two dextas off him early next year, and hope to make one out of two, although i would prefer to restore both if possible. as they they are both definate "hedgerow" tractors, i am unable to get any numbers at all, but i understand they can both be dated from serial numbers, as i have done with my E1A. i imagine i will have the same problems getting information about their historys, but i'm keeping my fingers crossed he will be a little more forthcoming with them.
can someone tell me how to download pics please? then i can show you the E1A as a work in progress. she is a runner, and i have been using her around the place, but she still needs some work to fully restore her.

[Bensdexta]

the guy i bought her off is very reluctant to divulge any information to her history at all. all he will say is he bought her "locally".

can someone tell me how to download pics please?

Hope she's not "hot"
Tell him tractors with history are worth more - they are!

For posting pics, see http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/phpbb ... ight=#1195
I load my photos onto photobucket; flickr is an alternative site. If you click on the appropriate box on the photobucket page, you will pick up the link to display your photo automatically.

NB The Search function on here is very useful

[Brian]

You have to get confirmation that your details are correct by sending them to someone like National Vintage Tractor and Engine Club at Yate, Bristol, They will verify them for the DVLA, then you apply for registration.

If you check back through the history on this site you will see how others have done it. Some use other verifiers. Then take your verified details and forms to your local DVLA office and your registratioin should take about 14 days, They may want to send someone out to check what you have but not always.

[JohnnyBoy]

Hi Eric, yes Brian’s right, and I’m going through it for the 3rd time and discovering a few hiccups on the way this time.

First you need to verify what your tractor is by an official tractor owners club. I use Grace Popperwell of the Ferguson Club, she deals with ANY MAKE of tractor. She’s a very nice, efficient lady and her number is 01673 844990 (it’s also on the Ferguson Club website or I wouldn’t publish it). Speak to her, she’ll ask you a few basic questions about your tractor and tell you what she needs you to send here. Grace will either do the whole thing for you or will just fill in the paperwork for you to approach your local DVLA office and obtain an “Age Related” registration number.

Next visit your nearest DVLA office with your completed paperwork and insurance and a £55 fee and you should receive your tax disc and registration number authorisation document within a week or so, my last one took only 3-days. Your V5C will take a few more weeks to arrive, but at least you’ll be able to take it out on the road.

However this time there’s a problem as my Major has already been registered on a “Q” plate. The DVLA told me they would contact the last known keeper to confirm they no longer were the keepers. They also said this could take up to 6-weeks. Last week I received a letter from then telling me they would issue a V5C registration document with the “Q” plate number, this will allow me to tax and use my Major on the road whilst I repeat the process of applying an Age Related number.

Bensdexta has a point about your tractor been “hot”, but unless you bought it from a bloke in a pub or collected it from a roadside layby somewhere then I doubt it to be stolen. It could be the previous owner was asked to take it away for someone and this person then decided he could make a bob or two on it.

However, if it is stolen you may have to return it to the legal owner or if an insurance claim was made then the tractor would belong to the insurance company so don’t spend any money on it until you get the registration sorted because you risk losing you tractor to the rightful owner.

Please keep us updated how you go on with it all

[Bensdexta]

Bensdexta has a point about your tractor been “hot”, but unless you bought it from a bloke in a pub or collected it from a roadside layby somewhere then I doubt it to be stolen. It could be the previous owner was asked to take it away for someone and this person then decided he could make a bob or two on it.

Before you buy a tractor (or any vehicle) you should ask the seller for evidence that he is the rightful owner. He should have something, receipts, V5, old log book, insurance doc, service docs and if he got it 'locally' should be easier to verify, eg by word of mouth.

If he won't tell you anything, I'd be wary

[eric]

My Fergie came with number plates on but when I tried to trace the number from the old Kent county council’s records, they told me it had been given to a Vespa scooter.

apparently this was a very common way of avoiding speeding fines, as a farmer i knew years ago, in devon, recieved a speeding ticket for his fordson major, for exceeding speeds of 120 mph!
a biker had "pinched" his registration number to put on his bike! the farmer was on record as saying "I wish!".
maybe he was running the major on aviation fuel!

[Daves rusty bits]

If I went for an age related plate again I would use a verifier.
I found the DVLA at Swansea were a waste of space when I dealt directly with them, I was passed from pillar to post and given the wrong instructions by them when trying to prove the age of my Major, it dragged on for weeks.
Eventually while taxing my car online I did a vehicle enquiry on the tractor and there it was, on their own database, date of manufacture 1960. Unfortunately this wasn`t good enough for Swansea and they sent all my details to their Bristol office "for further investigation". One quick phone call to Bristol had it sorted and an age related number was sent the same day.

[Bensdexta]

Eventually while taxing my car online I did a vehicle enquiry on the tractor and there it was, on their own database, date of manufacture 1960. Unfortunately this wasn`t good enough for Swansea and they sent all my details to their Bristol office "for further investigation". One quick phone call to Bristol had it sorted and an age related number was sent the same day.

Dave,
How did you interrogate the DVLA database - using your tractor's original reg?
And did they issue you with the original reg?
TIA

[Daves rusty bits]

Yes Ben, I used the v reg number off an old tax disc that came with the tractor and entered it through a vehicle enquiry button on their taxing a vehicle page. It came up Fordson, date of manufacture 1960, date of first registration 1972 so it must have been used off road for 12 years. I didn`t want the v reg so they issued an age related number instead.

[Dandy Dave]

I'm glad we do not have this registration problem over here. Over here in the USA we just put an orange triangle on the tractor and go where we need to in the farming part of New York State at least. This registration stuff sounds like a head ache.

How would you go about registering a vintage tractor that was shipped from here in the US, to there in the UK, that is without papers other than a bill of sale? Dandy Dave!

[Tomlincs]

You have to get confirmation that your details are correct by sending them to someone like National Vintage Tractor and Engine Club at Yate, Bristol, They will verify them for the DVLA, then you apply for registration.

If you check back through the history on this site you will see how others have done it. Some use other verifiers. Then take your verified details and forms to your local DVLA office and your registratioin should take about 14 days, They may want to send someone out to check what you have but not always.

My local DVLA office in Lincoln have point blank refused to accept the age verification certificate that I received from the National Vintage Tractor & Engine Club for my 1957 Fordson Major diesel tractor. Problem is, my tractor has no documentation, no serial plate on the bulkhead and no number plates. The engine is also prefixed with an S and has a FoMoCo emblem, showing it to be a Ford replacement engine. I've been told it was probably an industrial one that drove a pump or generator etc. originally. What my tractor does have in its favour is the original distributors plate on the Near side bonnet - Harry K Brown (in Fifeshire) and two casting codes, one on the gearbox casing and the other on the hydraulic unit under the seat showing that they were made within a few days of each other in June 1957. Unfortunately, Harry K Brown dealership no longer exists and I have been unable to get any usable info from the Scottish Vintage Vehicle Federation about my tractor, althought they tried hard to help me.

Because the engine has an S prefix and the engine casing is dated 26 6 69, the DVLA are saying that they will have to give me an age related plate corresponding to the newest component on the vehicle which is the 1969 engine, I pointed out to them that it was an impossibility to have a Fordson regsistered as being made in 1969 because the Fordson marque ceased to exist after 1964, but they were adamant that this is what they were going to have to do. A further complication is that when I phoned the DVLA in Swansea to ask them for advice on what extra evidence I would need to produce to convince the Lincoln office that my Fordson was made in 1957, they said that under no circumstances should it be given an age related plate based on the date of the engine!! So I'm in a right old pickle because I have two bureaucrats in the DVLA who disagree with each other and i feel like I'm piggy in the middle. The DVLA guy was so adamant about it that he said quote my name and details to the person in the Lincoln office, but the last thing I want is to be a spectator at a bureaucrats boxing match. All I want is to have my Fordson registered on a 1957 age-related plate.

Any help on what i should do from here very much appreciated.

[Bensdexta]

I'm surprised they haven't offered you a Q plate - ie age indetermined?

[Brian]

I have never heard of an authority refusing to accept the verification issued by one of their recommended sources. Sounds like they are a law unto themselves.

Did you find and photograph as many casting codes as possible? Did you include a picture of the tractor? Think I would go back to NVTEC and tell them that the DVLA is no longer accepting their verification document.

Think possibly you have given them too much information regarding the Scottish connection, we have to remember, for official purposes, Scotland is now a separate country and they may be treating your tractor as if it has been imported, daft as it may seem.

It also seems strange that they have not sent out one of their officials to inspect and verify the tractor, if they have a problem.

[BarryT]

Brian,

I like the bit where Johnny Boy says "I hope you did not collect it from a roadside layby somewhere" ????

Regards,

BarryT

[Tomlincs]

I'm surprised they haven't offered you a Q plate - ie age indetermined?

and quote from Brian - I have never heard of an authority refusing to accept the verification issued by one of their recommended sources. Sounds like they are a law unto themselves.

You're both dead right in the fact that she (the DVLA lady - if that's the correct term for her!) is a law unto herself and also that she was adamant that it was a Q plate until I explained the casting codes that dated it to June 1957, within a few days of each other. She then fixed on the date of the engine, at which point she said that the NVTEC age certificate for 1957 was merely a recommendation in DVLA's eyes and that it was obviously 'a reconstructed classic vehicle' that would be dated in keeping with the newest component - the 1969 replacement engine. It's nothing of the kind - just a bog standard Fordson Major which has had a replacement engine 12 yrs after it was first registered.

She blanked me when I tried to explain that Fordson no longer existed as a marque in 1969, so it would be an impossibility to date it as such, unique in the annals of Fordson history! She later sent me a letter directing me to stamp a VIN number on the 'offside chassis' with a requirement to have a 'dealer or local garage' sign a declaration that they have done the work. They'll then be sending a policeman to inspect my tractor to affirm that it has been done etc. etc. I don't mind any of this to be honest, but I just know that the NVTEC verifier and the DVLA Swansea bloke are right in saying that it should NOT be dated in line with the date of the 1969 engine. I've made up my mind to write to her stating that I do not want the Registration process to be progressed until she resolves the disagreement with her Swansea colleague. Sods law is that if I go ahead with what she wants, the application will stall when it gets to Swansea because they'll realise her mistake and I'll be back to square one again. Let this be a lesson to all who are thinking of applying to the Lincoln office of the DVLA along similar lines.

To coin a phrase from Blackadder, I'd rather beat my tongue wafer thin with a meat tenderiser than venture there again. Just getting there is a nightmare because Lincoln's City centre gets gridlocked with traffic at busy times resulting in miles of queues on all approach roads and there are no parking facilities at the DVLA offices, so you run the risk of a parking fine if they ask you to take your vehicle there for them to inspect -as happened to a friend of mine. Worst of all, the offices are ruled by someone who is a law unto herself. I have been told that the next nearest DVLA office, in Beverley, in Yorkshire, is actually run by rational human beings, who do actually listen to applicants, so if you live in Lincolnshire, I throughly recommend a detour North to Beverley.

[Brian]

Does she think that if you put a new bulb in a headlight, that the tractor should be dated by that? I would get back to NVTEC as soon as possible and ask their advice because this lady is seriously out of line with accepted policy.

They have their own inspectors usually, not the police. Even I have been asked and given dating advice that has been accepted by the DVLA!!!