I think I may have a clutch problem.

[Gman]

Hi everyone. I have been reading this post and it makes me concerned about my PM with live clutch. I have worked the clutch pretty hard with the type of work I do with her, pulling logs and pulling up stumps especially many years ago when I was clearing my land. I work a lot on a steep hill and have always been concerned about turning over or flipping her over backwards, this has almost happened more than once, now I have to hope she doesn't explode on me.
Would the horsepower of my PM be no problem on the clutch?
I guess I need to figure out how to get the live clutch off of the block I have, right now it is sitting out in the weather which I'm sure is not good for it.
Anyway hope all is going great for everyone.

[Bensdexta]

I have replaced gearbox housings on tractors with Horndraulic loaders when they broke the housings. I have also replaced many, many Live Clutch housings and plates due to cracking, in tractors with no loaders. We shall never know the story about that one.

Brian,
What tractors were these? Dextas?

[Brian]

The Power Major should be OK. Most Live Clutches run many years, it is only when they are under constant stress like loader work, heavy ploughing or heavy PTO work when they start to give problems. My message is basically do not abuse them. We are so used to a basic tractor being "bomb proof" that we forget that there were weak points in their design.

Dextas did not give many problems in the clutch department Ben, but again, I have seen the clutch housings break with a loader fitted. It comes down to how you use it. To see a Dexta with a big bale on front and back driving across a field may be approaching her limits.

[super6954]

I know we have a dexter fan on the Major forum so don't want to upset him to much . Every time I here guys mension the Dexta in Canada they say it didn't have the power to pull the skin off custard . is this why the Dexter clutches never gave much problem I wonder, Not enough power to hurt it . Talk about the major and a lot of guys loved them in the day .
Regards Robert

[Gman]

Thanks Brian. Can anyone tell me or give advice on how to get the live clutch off of this block I have.
I have read manual some time back and believe it says the clutch is bolted to flywheel. Looking at what I have I'm not sure if it will come off, the engine is seized as you can see therefore unable to turn flywheel. I hope to at least go pick this block up with my Power Major this weekend if weather permits and place it under a shed. Any advice is always greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Brian]

Just undo the ring of 1/2"AF spanner size bolts around the ali. housing. There are no springs because the clutch is one whole lump. It is fairly heavy, about 30-40 lbs. With the bolts out it will just come straight out.

[super6954]

Just undo the ring of 1/2"AF spanner size bolts around the ali. housing. There are no springs because the clutch is one whole lump. It is fairly heavy, about 30-40 lbs. With the bolts out it will just come straight out.

This is as Brian said above I would just like to add 2 small comments , If you say that the unit has been outside you may find that you have to seperate the unit from the flywheel by splitting the joint with a lightish tap with a hammer and chisel. ive had them where they are stuck together with rust and needed some effort to get the clutch off the flywheel.
The other thing could be that if its sat out the 2 discs could be stuck to the drive surfaces inside the clutch with rust or old oil contamination. ive seen that happen once or twice in my time.so i either check them before putting them in the tractor if a press is available to carefully release the pressure on the levers, or put it in push the tractor up with a couple of bolts in to hold the tractor together . then push the clutch down with it and the pto in gear and turn it over by hand to make sure its free before putting the whole tractor together and finding its all stuck when you try and drive it.
I hope this info is usefull to you and the clutch is a usefull spare part . good luck
Regards Robert

[Brian]

Barry has sent me a few more details about the tractor and what it was doing. The frame is to support a silo filling auger 40' long. The tractor has worked for many years on this application before this disaster happened.

[Gman]

Thanks eveyone. I had some help at the house for Chrismas and the clutch is now in my shop. Can you remove the flywheel from the block without special tools?
Thanks

[super6954]

Thanks eveyone. I had some help at the house for Chrismas and the clutch is now in my shop. Can you remove the flywheel from the block without special tools?
Thanks

Yes you can the bolts should have a lock tab ( a piece of tin between to sets of bolts in 3 places) You should see it is bent up against the side of the bolt head to stop it un doing. If it is still intact bend the little flap down then use a socket or air impact wrench to undo the six bolts. you may have to use a bar or wood block to stop the motor turning if free when using regular socket set.
when those bolts are out the flywheel is on locating pegs and should stay on. just watch your feet as ive seen them fall off if they are a little worn or not to tight on pegs or centre crank boss.
if it is stuck tight there is 2 small threaded holes to take pull studs in the crank bolt pattern at opposite sides . Im not sure on thread size but they will be a standard major type threaded bolt. I did come across one that had stripped threads in once. Then i had to resort to tapping the flywheel off from the oil pan side with a large hammer and block of wood. If the monkeys have not messed with it before you should be ok. Hope this helps
Regards Robert

[Gman]

Thanks Robert, as soon as my time and weather permits I will see if I can get it off. I did take the badges off the bonnet, they are the ones with the big D and in good shape. I think I may just put them somewhere on the wall in my game room. My four year old grandson has laid claim to the Major and keeps telling me to quit taking parts off of her. Can I stand her back up on her feet without the engine? I believe I have all the other parts, the backend is complete except the hydraulic pump I took out. Anyway hope all has a safe and happy New Year.

[Roel]

I do not think Roadless used the dual clutch, at least I cannot remember one. The ones we serviced had HD 11" or 13" clutches, some had sintered bronze lobed discs like the County range.

I work for an ex Roadless demonstrator repairing electronics, next time he phones me I will ask.

The live clutch was designed for a Major at 40hp, it would have normally had a 30% overload factor built in, The hp of the Power and Super reduced this.

Clutch heating became a problem and cracking in the aluminum housing caused us to change many of them.

There is no practical way of strengthening the clutch.

en

This is interesting. For some time I have followed this thread and discussed the matter with a former colleague that is very knowledgeable when it comes to Fordsons and owns several types. He told me, that the reason live clutches fail when used in combination with 6 cilinder engines is the higher rpm rather than the power transmitted. Centrifugal forces / unbalance will cause the spectacular type of damage discussed in previous posts. He confirmed Pascal's remark that the max rpm on the 590e engines was limited, causing it to deliver no more than approximately 80 hp. Using a six cilinder engine on a live drive tractor would be no problem if you use it with common sense and run no more than 2200 rpm. Brian, what do you think about this
Also, he was sure Roadless had delivered a 6/4 Ploughmaster with live clutch. Yes, I really do want one .

And ehhh..... a happy and healthy 2011 for all !!