Vintage Ploughing

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:48 pm

Hi,
With ploughing matches in full swing, can someone tell me why Fergusons both grey and red, outnumber Fordsons by about 10:1? I asked a chap yesterday why he used a grey Fergie and he replied "Because my father had one!"

I've read here that quite a number of folk consider say the Dexta to be better for ploughing than the grey Fergie or even the F35. So why not more dextas?

Also what are the rules regarding the age of both tractor and plough for Vintage ploughing matches?
Thanks,
Ben

Mike Kuscher · Post by **Mike Kuscher** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:38 pm

Ben,

You ask

"can someone tell me why Fergusons both grey and red, outnumber Fordsons by about 10:1?"

I reckon they feel they have something to prove, compared to 'ol blue'

Mike

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:11 pm

Mike Kuscher wrote:Ben,

You ask
"can someone tell me why Fergusons both grey and red, outnumber Fordsons by about 10:1?"
I reckon they feel they have something to prove, compared to 'ol blue'

Mike

So one dexta does the work of 10 fergies, then?!

Post by **Brian** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:06 pm

Ferguson had higher sales than Dextas, Dextas came out in 1958 but Fergies came out 10 years earlier so had the market.

I don't understand why people use them at ploughing matches because the hydraulics and the Ferguson plough just do not make a good job (IMHO), but they are accessible to a lot of people and the more people interested in old tractors and equipment the better.

And its good to see them all at work and being ploughed into the ground by a Dexta and a Ransomes plough. It makes my day at least.

Don't forget, the Fergie was designed by Henry Ford and the design "borrowed" by Harry Ferguson. Also the Ferguson "famed" hydraulic system did not work until Ford engineers re-designed the control valve and linkage before the "handshake" agreement.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:41 pm

Brian,
Many thanks for the explanation.

Can you advise on the age rules for vintage ploughing?

I've heard that 1959 is a critical date, but I see that for our local plough match any tractor over 25 years old counts as 'vintage'?

I believe ploughs have to be 'vintage' also and unmodified from original.

Thanks again,

Ben

Post by **Brian** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:08 pm

I have looked up the World Rules for Vintage Ploughing but these may change for your local matches.

Basically, no plough made after 31st Dec 1959, no match ploughs, no hydraulic adjustments, no hydraulic top links, no additions to the plough except "boats" for oat furrows, skimmers must be fitted and used.

Tractors must be made prior to 1960, no Perkins conversions unless originally fitted by the manufacturer eg. P4 Nuffield, P6 E27N, no other engine mods allowed eg. 6 cylinder Majors, no 4WD conversions unless original equipment.

So you could use a 1960 Super Major with a 1940's trailed plough but you could not use a TS82.

In most matches there are seperate classes for Ferguson tractors and ploughs ( and rightly so

) although Ferguson tractors are allowed to compete (?) with the others if they use a "proper" plough like a Ransomes or Fisher Humphries. PLEASE NOTE. I did NOT make the rules on this

. (Although I must admit that it makes driving a Dexta a bit bumpy as you plough the Fergies in).

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:19 pm

Brian wrote:
Tractors must be made prior to 1960, .....

So you could use a 1960 Super Major .....

Brian,
Many thanks. Can you clarify the above? Is it the beginning or end of 1960?
Thanx,
Ben

Post by **Brian** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:25 pm

Sorry Ben, the rules say 1960 so I suppose it means 31st Dec 1960.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:35 pm

Brian wrote:Sorry Ben, the rules say 1960 so I suppose it means 31st Dec 1960.

Brian,
It's strange that the plough must be a year older than the tractor!
Ben

PS: I've just got the rules for the Sussex National Vintage Area Finals ploughing champs and they say
"Class 4 – Best Tractor Ploughing with a Vintage Hydraulic Plough
(Tractor & Plough pre-1960)".
One imagines this means not later than 31st Dec 1959? So only early Dextas would qualify?

At the Henley match, there is a 'Classic class':
Class 3 – Classic Class
(Tractor & Plough manufactured from 1st January 1960 until 31st December 1976)
Ben

roromac · Post by **roromac** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:15 pm

It does rather limit Dextas to the first 2 years of production. No good to me but then I haven't ploughed for25+ years

Post by **Brian** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:48 am

The Classic class goes from 1960 to 1976, tractors must not have been fitted originally with a "Q" cab. The copy of the rules I read just said 1960 for the Vintage class so, as they were specific on the date for the ploughs it seems strange as you say, that tractor and ploughs should not be together. I had not run up against this as both mine fit clearly into each class, 1953 and 1968 tractors.

Dunggatherer · Post by **Dunggatherer** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:03 pm

Hi guys,here in the Netherlands we have ploughing matches too.

And maybe this is of any use:

Since my Dexta was built in 1962 i should not be allowed to participate.
But a rule here says (one of the ploughers told me) :since the Dexta was engineered in 1958 it was ok to join the match.
Even though mine is from a later date.
So it's the year of design that counts.

Maybe you can convince them to adopt that rule?

Greetings from the Netherlands.
Rob.

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:37 pm

All,
Thanks for your contributions.
It's interesting to speculate how the popularity of vintage ploughing might increase or otherwise in the future.
Horse ploughing is a wonderful spectacle but too difficult/expensive/time consuming for the average person to contemplate.
Ploughing with modern monster machines is for the professions only, which leaves vintage (before 1960) and maybe classic (1960-76), ploughing as the best value in terms of FUN (not sure what happens after '76 -- 32yrs ago!).
So interesting to speculate whether demand for old tractors and ploughs will increase if more folk get involved, perhaps as we return to a lower input/ lower output, more sustainable type of farming, with more small holders and grow-your-own types. Maybe I need that '59 dexta after all! Any thoughts appreciated?!
Ben

Bensdexta · Post by **Bensdexta** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:23 am

Hi,
Having been to ploughing competitions in the Thames Valley area, I have observed:
1. The ploughmen seem to be the same age as the tractors - vintage! The median age seems to be 50's with quite a few older & few 20/30's.
2. I'm told that 50% of competitors are not agricultural workers but are tractor hobbyists.

I guess that most younger folk don't have the time, space or money to get involved with old tractors - too busy paying for the house. Perhaps in more rural, traditional farming parts of the country there may be more farmers and a younger fraternity. But many young people have left the land in the past 30 yrs. I believe the average age of a hill farmer is ~60.

It's interesting to speculate on the value of our tractors in the longer term if more young folk don't get involved. However, will more marginal land be brought back into food production as food prices rise, perhaps providing more agricultural employment and opportunities for cheaper/older equipment?
Any views from the regions or the Colonies on the future of old tractoring appreciated? Meanwhile let's have some fun with 'em!
All the best,
Ben

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