Super major power steering kit

[Wyomiles]

Hello again all. Spring is here and I finally got back up into the mountains to start another summer of work with my Super major. The old baby started right up, Amazing! One rear tire was a little low on air and for some reason my little air compressor could not add air to the tire. It worked on the opposite tire so I think there may be a problem with the valve stem.

I have purchased a power steering kit from Agriline. Their website sold a kit, # 6004 for “all Majors”

http://www.agrilineproducts.com/techdia ... ering.html

I got to work installing it and found that there were several problems. It seemed that the mounting brackets were not made for my tractor. I had printed an instillation guide from the page above and as I looked at it there seemed to be a difference in the frame of the tractors. My super’s frame is wide between the rear wheels and narrows under the engine. The kit seems to be made for a tractor with a straight frame. So the mounting positions on the frame are different. Also could not figure out how to mount the pump without the generator being bypassed.
Here are some pictures that might help explain what I was seeing.













When I got back home I e-mailed the folks at Agriline and I have a fellow named Olly helping me but I thought I would get some advice from you all too.
Searching around the forum here I see several comments on mounting the pump slightly forward of the generator and using a double drive pulley with a separate belt for the pump. I will still need to drill new holes in the frame to mount the new bracket but that might be the answer to that problem. It might be difficult installing the belt as there won’t be a sliding mount like what is on the generator.
It seemed that when I temporarily positioned the hydraulic ram that the ram is going to rub against some of the frame so I was wondering if I could make some sort of adjustment somewhere else to get the ram further away from the engine.
The bracket closest to the driver’s seat would not fit at all. There are four bolts in the frame that appear to be the correct ones but there is a “winged “bracket that is already there and I would have to remove the four bolts ,replace them with much longer ones, and fill the space with heavy metal shims of some sort, then install the kits bracket over that.
The old power steering ram and brackets are still in place and are totally different.



One of the problems I face is that my land has no power, is pretty far from town and I do not have the nice shop equipment that many of you have. So I am already at a disadvantage as far as welders or drilling holes goes. I can get a portable generator so I think I will be able to drill holes if needed.
So has anyone used one of these kits and how did you go about installing it?

[frode]

Sorry, I have no solution for your problem. Your problem is that this backhoe of yours have had a complete new frame carrying the backhoe and front loader made. This frame replaces the orginal U-channels connecting gearbox, engine and front weight. This kit would be bolt on if your major were original. You will have to do some major fabricaton to get your kit to work.

[Pascal]

Hi,
A gew years ago I had the same problem with my aftermarket powersteering kit.
I had to widen the frontaxle one hole and had to drill new holes in the bracket to fit it all.
I got an extra pulley with the kit, that I mounted on the crankshaft pulley.
Right now I am answering via my mobile phone. If you need any other info or pictures, please let me know.
I can do.later lathis week.

[BearCreek Majors]

I’m thinking Pascal has got the right Idea, I would suggest modifying the new cylinder mounting bracket to bolt onto the original bracket, just doing this and turning the bolt around that is attaching the loader to the frame rail, so that the nut is on the inside and only the bolt head is protruding out, may give you enough clearance….until you run the left front tire up on a rock, it may still make contact at that point. If so widen the axel out.
The pump mount may be a hassle, I have heard other complaints about this as well. Normally they run the pump from an extra pulley attached to the front of the crank pulley. I’m thinking there are a few threads on this subject on some older posts.
And please don’t throw out the old parts, After you get it all sorted out I could use your old parts to fix one of mine!

Pat

[Wyomiles]

Thanks all.
Frode, I had no idea that this tractor frame was not the original ! No wonder the kit won't fit.

Pascal , yes please send pictures and more , very detailed instructions. I am not very mechanically inclined so will need lots of help with this if you have time. They only sent one pully which will mount on the pump so I guess I will need another pulley?

Pat, Turning the big bolt around may be the answer to that pinch point and I will have to learn more about widening the axel. I hope I can find someone locally who can help me modify the other bracket.
I had brought the idea of buying this kit up in another thread last year and I had a couple of requests for the old parts so I will have to see who was first in line. Or have a bidding war

Keep the ideas coming , Hopefully Olly from agriline will have some good news for me. If not I will be trying to figure it all out next month when I get back up in the mountains.

[Dandy Dave]

I remember asking you also about the left overs. All I really need is one of the tin covers that covers the ball joints. If I'm first in line??? Pat can have the rest to get his fixed up. Dandy Dave!

[Pascal]

Hi Wyomiles,

Don't worry, we will get you through this issue. Remember, it's not WHAT you know, but WHO you know.
And you know this board, so you are in good hands.
When I bought my tractor in 2006 I knew very little about my tractor and now a few years later I converted my 4 cylinder SuperMajor
into an 6 cylinder, rebuild the 6 cylinder engine and rebuild my gearbox. But of course only with the help of this board!

This is when I started:



The rear bracket is mounted together with the oil tank:



Here the problems started...the pump is too far to the front of the tractor...



The cylinder hits the bracket of the pump...




So I widened the front axle



it's quite simple, when you find out how it works. The only problem might be, that it will be quite stuck.
It's wise to spray some oil in this area some time before you do this, if possible.
Turn the front wheels to the left. Remove the left bolt on the bottom of the steering rod (near the left front wheel).
Block the right wheel for turning. Steer to the right...you will see the inner part of the steering rod will come out.
Turn just as much so the bolt can go into the second hole.
Do the same for the right wheel. Than the front wheels point in the same direction again.

I mounted the pulley (you only need one, since the crank pulley will already be on your tractor) with three bolts on the crank pulley (the holes
are already in).
It's a bit narrow, but you can do it without removing any parts.
I had the problem the radiator fan would hit the belt. So I filled the fan up with some rings/spacers.

I measured where the bracket should be, so the pulley of the oilpump would be in a straight line with the new mounted pulley on the crank pulley.



I drilled new holes in the frame.
I would not recommend this though. It's better to modify the bracket. But at that time, this seems the best solution.
At least it's a solution you can do with quite simple tools.





All mounted!




If you need any help, please don't hesitate to contact us via this board.

[super6954]

Hi It looks like you have to do a lot of engineering work to fit that kit with your loader. I wish parts guys would tell you this as so many guys don't know much about the different spec stuff. One site is bad for this in the description fits all majors. Some stuff does not cross over but they imply it does .
If nobody claims the power steering pump bracket that is bolted to the head, I would buy it and pay shipping to canada if you where interested in selling it .
I bought a pump for $25 to go on mine to build an original kit from parts as i found them and the mounting is missing .
Regards Robert

[BearCreek Majors]

Let the guys that need the parts have first dibs at them, I’m just trying to scrounge up enough parts to put power on my Super Major. I have a ram with a patch welded on it, the threads in the end of the cylinder are goobered up and I stole the rod to replace a bent one on one of the other tractors. The rod can be straightened and I can get measurement off the other tractors if I have to make some parts.

I’m assuming you still have the original extra pulley on the crank, using it to drive the pump the mounting bracket should be slotted somehow to be able to adjust the belt tension by moving the pump up/down or in/out, or pivoting the pump on one mounting hole and a slotted bracket to the other, same idea as the generator. I would wait to see what Olly can do, but I doubt that they will have anything that will work with your frame and bracing.
It’s a lot easier to fab up parts when you have everything in front of you and a shop full of tools at hand, but this is the first thing that popped into my head.
Assuming you can pivot the pump on one of its mounting holes as with a generator, I would get a piece of angle iron, maybe 2X2X1/4 by 6” long. Get a piece of round stock, maybe 1 ½ diameter by 1 ½ long for the pump pivot mount, drill a hole through it the size of the pump mounting holes, basically making it into a tube, this needs to be mostly straight and square as this mount will hold the pump in proper alignment with the drive pulley. This will be welded to the inside of the angle iron bracket as the pivot, you may find that the hole needs to be drilled off center, or a taller pivot needs to be made from some bar stock to get enough clearance to be able to pivot the pump a few good inches back and forth. Drill two 3/8 holes on the bottom of the angle iron bracket. Now with the pump bolted to it finger tight, set it on top of the frame rail using a couple of C clamps to hold it in place and in alignment with the pulley on the crank. Transfer the hole location on the bracket to the top of the frame rail, drill the holes in the rails and bolt it down. Get an old slotted bracket from a gen/alt to hold the top of the pump in place and attach it to the motor somewhere. Again it’s just a thought, it may or may not work, if it fails …please don’t let my wife know that I was WRONG!

And be sure you get bolts in the two top holes in the front of the frame rails to anchor it to the tombstone, snapping the only two that are in there can make for a bad day!

Pat

[whirly]

I'm absolutely certain I'm missing something here, BUT .... why can't you use the original power steering pump and the new hardware. Seems it would remove the engineering problem.

[Dandy Dave]

He could if he has a good pump. If the pump was run without oil for any amount of time it could well be shot. Dandy Dave!

[super6954]

[quote="BearCreek Majors"]Let the guys that need the parts have first dibs at them,
Hi Pat
Are you having a problem with me asking the same question that you did about parts I only asked if He would consider selling the bracket if nobody else needed it. I would like to buy him a water pump and straight swap that too glad i didn't now cause you'd probably shoot me . If it takes me 3 years to get the parts I dont care I would like original power steering on my tractor but wont spend 2000 bucks doing it. It is gonna be my show unit and original.
It' s probably getting to the point that if it was mine i would throw it all in the scrap and nobody would have any of it if we can't be civil to each other about it .
Regards Robert

[BearCreek Majors]

Sorry if you guys misunderstood what a wrote, What I meant was more in the line of “let the other guys have first dibs, Ill take the leftovers” if you need a bracket to finish yours off with all the correct parts I would much rather see you get it than me as I don’t even have a pump to bolt to it!
As the saying goes… do what I mean not what I say.
Maybe what my wife is says about my mumbling not making any sense is true!

Whirly & Dave bring up a good point as well, maybe the old pump and bracket is still usable with the new ram.

Pat

[super6954]

Hey Pat
Thanks for that Didn't want to end up causing more cross border problems than we already have between U.S and Canada . All I have now is the pump, It was in a load of other Fordson stuff that seemed to be attracted to me( you know how that works), If I don't end up with this bracket I don't really mind if it stays in the U.S too help someone else.
its a shame you guys live so far away. If i knew this pump was good for a small consideration I would of sold it and shipped it to you If shipping was a bit cheaper .
Have a good day
Regards Robert

[BearCreek Majors]

Thanks Robert, lifes to short to get in a fude with any of you guys, I hope we are all on this site to help each other.
I hope we dident scare Wyomiles away…..I don’t particularly remember him saying that he was even willing to part with the left over parts.

Pat

[Dandy Dave]

Here.... So he did not say no either.

I had brought the idea of buying this kit up in another thread last year and I had a couple of requests for the old parts so I will have to see who was first in line. Or have a bidding war

I believe everyone here only has good intentions of helping out in any way that we can. Dandy Dave!

[Wyomiles]

WOW, you guys are great, good stuff, Thanks.

I have been e-mailing Olly back and forth for a couple of days and he is of absolutely no help. I am a little bit mad right now as I can't believe that Agriline sells kits for "all Majors" that will only fit some Majors. I had plans to fix this tractor up a little at a time and I can tell you that Agriline has just lost a customer!

I admit that I should have dug into this a little bit deeper before assuming that they really were selling me the right parts. Buyer beware and all that. I can’t afford to send it back so I will do my best with what they sent me. With all of your advice I am feeling a little better about it.

Anyway I will be taking all of your suggestions with me, up to where the tractor is, during the first week of May and we will see if I can figure something out. Remember I live about 4 hours from there and only get up there once a month so this could take me all summer to work something out. And again I only have hand tools, no welder or electricity, unless I rent a generator, so be patient with me. I do have some guys at work who are welders and mechanics so if I need some modifications I will have to take lots of pictures and measurements for them to work from. ( And for you all to comment on. ) Then wait until the next month that I go up there to see if the modifications worked.

All that is left of the old system is the ram, two brackets, and the rod that connects the ram to the steering box arm. No pump, no reservoir, no hoses. So I will be trying everything, including using the old brackets, to try and get this kit to work. If there are any spare parts left over after I get done I will let you all know and post pictures.

Thanks again everyone for your support. I am going to need lots more!

[frode]

How to mount the ram:



You allready have the mount for the old power steering ram. Use this. Take the ball of the old ram, its threaded on there with a locking pin through. Get some measurements of the length.

Remove the rod end from the new ram and get the ram machined to fit the old ball (or get a new ball made). You will need a machinist friend with a lathe to make a new. The threads on the old ball is 3/4"-16 I think.

Now use the old mount. Power steering ram, and linkage should now fit.

I have done this myself to mount a agriline hydraulic steering kit onto my county 654, without doing any damage to the orginal system on the tractor. The kit was for a Ford 5000 but the brackets didnt fit because of the frame for the front axle. Allmost the same as your problem.

And I dont think you can blame Agriline for this. They are right about the kit fitting ALL majors. As long as theyre original. There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of different setups for the various front loaders, backhoes and other heavy equipment fitted to the major through the years.

Now onto the pump....

[super6954]

How to mount the ram:



You allready have the mount for the old power steering ram. Use this. Take the ball of the old ram, its threaded on there with a locking pin through. Get some measurements of the length.

Remove the rod end from the new ram and get the ram machined to fit the old ball (or get a new ball made). You will need a machinist friend with a lathe to make a new. The threads on the old ball is 3/4"-16 I think.

Now use the old mount. Power steering ram, and linkage should now fit.

I have done this myself to mount a agriline hydraulic steering kit onto my county 654, without doing any damage to the orginal system on the tractor. The kit was for a Ford 5000 but the brackets didnt fit because of the frame for the front axle. Allmost the same as your problem.

And I dont think you can blame Agriline for this. They are right about the kit fitting ALL majors. As long as theyre original. There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of different setups for the various front loaders, backhoes and other heavy equipment fitted to the major through the years.

Now onto the pump....

Hi Frode
Sorry to jump in on the original topic. The cylinder you have looks nothing like the one for a major or nothing close to whats on my 954 county. I have the sensing rod from the steering box the same as the major original. yours does not seem to have that rod . does your tractor have the factory power steering box fitted or one from the new kit and that is just a double acting cylinder. or are you missing something trying to fit that kit on your county.
Regards Robert

[frode]

Hi Frode
Sorry to jump in on the original topic. The cylinder you have looks nothing like the one for a major or nothing close to whats on my 954 county. I have the sensing rod from the steering box the same as the major original. yours does not seem to have that rod . does your tractor have the factory power steering box fitted or one from the new kit and that is just a double acting cylinder. or are you missing something trying to fit that kit on your county.
Regards Robert

Hi Robert,

My 654 had the same setup as the major and your 954. I converted it to real hydraulic steering. You are right, there is no rod coming from the steering box. The factory steering box is replaced with an orbitrol valve with a pressure feed from the power steering pump, return to the reservoir, and 2 lines going to the steering ram. The ram is just a normal double acting unit. Kit is part #6006 at Agriline. You can see how I modified it to use the orginal county bracket for the steering ram on the picture above.

Steering is now as light as on my Chevy full size.

Regards Frode

[JC]

I can't believe that Agriline sells kits for "all Majors" that will only fit some Majors.

Don't be too hard on Agriline. Your tractor doesn't have the original frame. The original Fordson power steering fit all Majors, too (except tricycle). Your Super has been modified, so you will need to modify the power steering, too.

[frode]

I just noticef the picture I took doesnt show what I meant. Ill post a new one later toda

[whirly]

... My 654 had the same setup as the major and your 954. I converted it to real hydraulic steering. You are right, there is no rod coming from the steering box. The factory steering box is replaced with an orbitrol valve with a pressure feed from the power steering pump, return to the reservoir, and 2 lines going to the steering ram. The ram is just a normal double acting unit. Kit is part #6006 at Agriline. You can see how I modified it to use the orginal county bracket for the steering ram on the picture above.

Steering is now as light as on my Chevy full size

Very interesting

Question 1: Is the orbitrol box a direct fit to the Major's steering box?



Question 2: How easy does the steering column attach to the orbitrol unit?

This would be a neat fix for my FPM with a Superior FEL. The steering is still too much for the wife even with an empty bucket

[Dandy Dave]

I can't believe that Agriline sells kits for "all Majors" that will only fit some Majors.

Don't be too hard on Agriline. Your tractor doesn't have the original frame. The original Fordson power steering fit all Majors, too (except tricycle). Your Super has been modified, so you will need to modify the power steering, too.

I agree totally with this. Agriline has a lot of parts made from unobtainium. Stuff not available anywhere else in the world, and I have had excellent service from them in the past. It is not Olly's fault, or Agrilines that you have a frame manufactured by the loader company, and not by Fordson. Do you know the loader/ backhoe make? Wagner possibly? If you only lived a little closer, I could have you fixed up in no time. Dandy Dave!

[super6954]

... My 654 had the same setup as the major and your 954. I converted it to real hydraulic steering. You are right, there is no rod coming from the steering box. The factory steering box is replaced with an orbitrol valve with a pressure feed from the power steering pump, return to the reservoir, and 2 lines going to the steering ram. The ram is just a normal double acting unit. Kit is part #6006 at Agriline. You can see how I modified it to use the orginal county bracket for the steering ram on the picture above.

Steering is now as light as on my Chevy full size

Very interesting

Question 1: Is the orbitrol box a direct fit to the Major's steering box?



Question 2: How easy does the steering column attach to the orbitrol unit?


This would be a neat fix for my FPM with a Superior FEL. The steering is still too much for the wife even with an empty bucket

Hi Whirly
I have some sad news on what you asked about these parts
Question 1 No
Question 2 this is a factory unit all in one piece in this kit so unless you got parts to custom build your own it is gonna be hard to do.
Sorry to have to add to your problems and I too wish I lived nearer and could be more help to you.
Just a question here what was the shipping on the kit and customs fees to bring it over if you don't mind me asking.
Regards Robert