some super questons

[1su9pm6aj4]

Hey there all,

Been on and off this site the past 5 or 6 years coinciding with how much time I have had available to work on my '64 super rebuild. I am at it again and have a few questions about engine stuff. Thanks in advance for any info. I am assembling my engine and need a tip or two on how tight I should have the ring compressor to facilitate shoving the piston into the cylinder. I sure don't want to catch a ring . Should I also coat the pistion/rings with lots of oil?
Also, my super does not have cam bearings and the clearance seems to be around .006 on a couple journals, with a new camshaft. The engine block was already prepped and the crank is in. Getting ready to install new pistons and rebuilt rods but wondered if it would be worth while to disassemble and take back to machinist and have cam bearings installed. I do have a new oil pump to go with the rebuild, so wondering if the oil pressure would be acceptable if I forgo new cam bearings. The crank has been machined, and is now .010 oversize.
I did buy a copper head gasket and want to install it correctly with the right sealent , any suggestions for that, and any suggestions for things to watch out for. I have the original head bolts that have been cleaned up but have been told new head bolts are a good idea. if you think I need to get them, where would be the place for that?
That's it for now and thanks for your help. Kerry

[Brian]

First thing I noticed in your post, copper asbestos gasket. The New Performance Super did not have a copper asbestos gasket it had a composite one. Head bolts will be OK, they are not like the "strechy" ones used in modern engines. Henrietta's are now coming up to 62 years old.

Lots of oil on the pistons as you fit them and cram the piston ring clamp up tight. Tap them in gently with a piece of wood, I use a hammer handle, and you will feel the piston go down, tap around the outside of the piston not in the middle. On the shop floor when the engines were assembled new, they used one massive whack with a rubber hammer and the piston flew down the clamp and into the bore. I was never able to do that.

I use Moly grease on the big end bearings as I fit them.

[Pavel]

The good book states that the maximum camshaft bearing clearance should be no more than 0.0045" [0.114mm]. Since some of yours are larger you will obviously lose some oil pressure -- but whether this is critical, I know not.
Make sure that the p/ring gaps are not aligned with each other, but distanced differently around the piston. Place the piston into its cylinder first so that the bottom ring is resting on the cylinder block -- then fit, and tighten the ring clamp, having made certain that the clamp also is flush all the way around with the deck of the block. Fitting the clamp before entering the piston can leave the clamp slightly off square with the possibility that the bottom ring still protrudes and breaks. Some installers grind a very slight chamfer to the top of each cylinder to allow ease of ring entry -- the loss of compression is minimal. Oiling the cylinders is also good practice.
As an aside -- the crankshaft is now 'undersized'.

Pavel

[1su9pm6aj4]

Thanks for the info guys, I feel more confident now. As for the possible cam bearings, I will call the machinist and get his opinion and a price, would be nice to know if I do go that way, when she fires up, the oil pressure is at its peak after all the work.
And yes I miss stated the crank is oversize, its .010 undersize. The double clutch got dropped off yesterday to be resurfaced and that will be the next challenge...getting it back together correctly with all the levers at the proper height and then ultimately getting it lined up and ready to meet the transmission. have rebuilt disks for it and new springs that might have a bit more pressure but are at least the same dimensions.
One more question, When I pulled the hydraulics apart in the top cover a few years ago, I am not positive but I think when I took out the unloader valve or the main valve that is on the hydraulic piston block, I might have cracked it as I put it back in. I distinctly remember looking at what I thought might be a crack but was not 100% positive. The top cover is all back together but not installed. could any of you guess as to what the lift arms would or would not do with that particular valve cracked? I think it is original so if I go to replace it does Agriline sell the one that is the right size for mine? I understand there are different sizes for those valves. Thanks again for the advice and help. Kerry

[Brian]

It is not likely that you would have cracked either the control valve, unload valve or plug as these are machine steel. They will bend if you rest the lift on the control valve or drive the unload valve and plug out from the back. If the valves move easily in their bushes you do not have a problem.

[BearCreek Majors]

Let us know what your machinest says, but he probably won't be able to find cam bearings. With the fresh crank and bearings, and the new oil pump you probably will have no problems with oil pressure.

Pat

[AdrianNPMajor]

I agree with Pat. Going by my limited experience (two engine rebuilds - 57 MKII and 63 NP Super) if you change the crank bearings and replace the oil pump, you'll get great oil pressure - mid forties on tick over cold. In the case of the NP Super I also replaced the cam shaft because the lobes showed signs of wear.
Best
Adrian

[1su9pm6aj4]

Thanks again,

I think I will just install the cam as is. Another thing that worried me was how mashed and worn a couple cam lobes were, almost unbelievable. Also the key way in the cam gear was stretched but that could have happened when the previous owner tried pull starting the tractor before he sold it too me. The thing ran according to the last owner and the reason he sold it was because a head gasget went bad and hydro locked the engine. Will try shoving the pistons in tonight when I get off work. I,ll use the tips you all suggested and hopefully have connecting rods all torked down also.
Really appreciate all your help guys, has given me new hope I will actually finish this project! Kerry

[Brian]

If you have worn cam lobes have you replaced the cam shaft? Worn cam shafts were common on New Performance Supers and the cam followers also wore badly. Different valve springs fitted to these tractors was the cause, so we were told at the time. If they are showing signs of wear they will not last long.

[1su9pm6aj4]

Hi Brian,

The camshaft is new as are the cam followers. You said the originals wore due to the springs redesign by the factory,I bought new springs from agriline, think they might be redesigned?
Boy the pistons went in great just like you all advised. I pinched the first or bottom ring in with my fingers then slid the piston down to rest on the engine block, clamped the ring compressor on and with the wood end of a hammer taped them all in. Torqued the rod bolts to 50 and then installed cam followers with cam next. Made a mistake with engine plate cover by getting it powder coated and not realizing both back and front should be bare metal. Will sand off tonight and hopefully get that attached and gears put on....
May do the rear seal also, any advice would be appreciated if it is more than the book says. They say leave .015 on both ends, top and bottom, put some oil on it. Should I put some sealer in the channel that holds it?
Every time I pull another part off a shelf and install it I am encouraged this thing will run one day and everything will work as it should. Sure glad to have access to all of the various members collective knowledge of the fordsontractorpages majors. I wish I had known the uniqueness of this tractor before I brought it home and tore it down and started cleaning parts and getting them powder coated, some red, some hammered silver. Cannot go back after all the expense and paint her blue just yet but maybe down the line. I did the bonnet, nose cone, gas tank,steering works and a few other parts in red and the rear end, tranny, engine block in hammered silver. The valve cover, oil pan, and air intake, foot wells brakes, clutch, and hydrolic controls are also in red. The wheels are, rim in hammered silver and inside I red. At least the engine builder paint the block in blue after he did the machine work on it ha ha.
Thanks again. Kerry

[Dandy Dave]

Say, How about a photo of your Fordson furgie. Ol dandy Dave just has to see it. Mine was painted red when I got it, but I turned it back to Blue. Dandy Dave!

[1su9pm6aj4]

Hi Dave,

Sure, after I figure out how to post a picture or two I can send a few pics of the rear end and tranny all finished painted and some of the various pieces. Parts left to clean and paint are the front axel, the wings or fenders, some of the rear brackets/bars. Oh yea the top cover needs paint also except for the control valve.
I am reinstalling the original r p m / hours gauge which reads about 4000 hours. It is anticlockwise not that that matters but I do want to turn the numbers all back to 0 if any of you have done so and have any warnings or techniques I might need to use for success.

Thanks...pictures on the way