rusty turns over but wont run

[chriss]

[img][IMG]http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a571/chriss1959/rustyspump001_zps7f9e1108.jpg[/img][/img] this is the offending item I have since cleaned it now should this be filled with oil to the large screw on the cover

[Matt in WI]

No, you should not fill it with oil but rather lubricate all the working bits. I found that it is a good practice on the pneumatic injection pumps. I don't know if other Fordson owners observe this same practice but we were advised of this by our local Ford dealer many, many years ago.

[chriss]

tried this morning still wont start

[henk]

The diesel that leaks will lubricate it. You could spray a bit of clean diesel in the pump.

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Chris
The pump is nearly sixty years old. Might be worth having it overhauled if the budget allows.
Best
Adrian

[chriss]

I had thought of that or new pump as for a while when setting off on the road you could open up the throttle and once the engine got to the stage where it didn't have to work it would lose revs as if it was running out of fuel but then maintain about half revs until you shut the throttle down and then opened it up again but would start instantly and run all day hope that makes sense

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Chris
Diesco in Ipswich refurbished and recalibrated my pump for £175. Not cheap but it came back like a new one. Had the injectors done at the same time. You're then guaranteed to be getting the right fuel injection, assuming your fuel line and filter are clear and clean.
Best
Adrian

[oehrick]

Looks like too hard a pull on the stop or opening t'throttle too far (can't remember which moves the rod to the left its been so long since I had one apart) has ended up at your problem Chris - I think with plenty of irrigation by squirting diesel in an oil can while shuttling it back and forth you ought to get full free movement back if you don't want to rebuild / disturb the settings just yet but I'll watch with interest what the experts say, I have a feeling my cold starting problems may come from a similar cause.....

[Brian]

Do not fill the pump with oil. The only oil that should be used in the pump is to keep it from rusting whilst in storage. On the tractor the pump is lubricated by diesel oil. All that will happen if you fill the pump with oil is that the diesel will dilute it and it will drain out of the pump leak off pipe.

Your problem is caused by lack of use, in other words diesel has not been circulating through the pump. It would be a good idea to add Automatic Transmission Fluid to the diesel, about 2 pints to a tank full.

[chriss]

been to malchome hipperons today he gave me another pump to try after checking the timeing on mine, still doesn't start but noticed I could hold the coupleing and move the crank completely off the timeing marks on the flywheel

[oehrick]

Had my ole gal out for a couple of hours on the 9 tine cultivator this afternoon (a set of discs would be handy as I'm going through bracken, bramble and other roots and the cultivator clogs and acts more like a rear scraper )

Still needed cold start button in to get her to start and while this thread has been focusing on the pump, I was having a closer look and noticed a small pipe coming from the block into a banjo joint lower rh of the pump, is this oil for the pump drive shaft bearing ? and if so I couldn't feel a return anywhere behind the pump block - assume its non circulatory ??

Cooling system now behaving and mostly retaining liquid, although not enough work to get the gauge much more than off the pin.

The dynamo / charging circuit is definitely caput somewhere, I've a morris minor dynamo which was a worker, I'm thinking of quickly servicing and transplanting, then doing the original up properly, I hope its not the regulator unit...........

Hope your 'new' pump works out Chris, backlash in the coupling is not good news, I've welded up and remachined the key seat in ours in the past and on one famous occasion the engine had been cranked (by someone who would have been 101 yesterday!) without my knowing, leading to endless fun and games before I realised it was refitted 180 degrees out, I dont think I've ever been happier when an engine roared into life, and somehow it was my fault

[chriss]

[img][[IMG]http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a571/chriss1959/rustyspumpshaft001_zps067c7cbd.jpg[/img]/img]could this be the cause of the problem

[oehrick]

Not nice viewing Chris, was the key sloppy, fretted or mangled ? Likewise the coupling - mangled to suit ??

If so a strip, braze / weld & re-machine is the long term repair (or find a spare shaft) but a new key loctited in with retainer or fitted using Belzona or similar to fill the gap (after clinical degreasing) might keep you going for a while.

If you do weld, find up some old copper coins or similar copper to hammer into the key seat and weld up to them will save on having to recut - unless you have a woodruff mill the right size, then you could file or grind the weld off the o/d to fit the coupling bore.

The coupling keyway might file back to a clean edge and then fit a shim with some Loctite bearing fit - woodruffs are great until radial wear creeps in, then its downhill all the way

[chriss]

malchome hipperson has shown me the shaft I'm now at the stage of looking at the timeing wheels a bit scarey but will take them off tomorrow then the back plate the only thing one bolt sheared the one that holds the dynamo adjuster but I think I can sort that

[Brian]

You need to drop the sump and take out the oil pump to get the shaft out. Watch out as there are two types of shaft and different oil pump drive gears.

[oehrick]

You need to drop the sump and take out the oil pump to get the shaft out. Watch out as there are two types of shaft and different oil pump drive gears.

Thats a PITA Brian - what's your experience of in situ repairs ?

I did ours about 15 years back with a stick welder and old pennies in the dip (and the proverbial tight grip on a sewing needle!!) and while its not done a lot of running since, seems tight still, should be easier with mig & tig available nowadays.

While it comes to mind, for ordinary parallel keys slack in the bore, I've had good results filing out and using a bit of the spring used on windscreen wiper rubbers, hard, rustless, not prone to bending as you tap it in

[Brian]

I have not done many repairs to that shaft, it was always easier to put another shaft in. Its not a bad job to remove the front axle and radiator in one lump then drop the front plate and sump. It was one of those jobs that was done before lunch back in the day.

[chriss]

[/img]

You need to drop the sump and take out the oil pump to get the shaft out. Watch out as there are two types of shaft and different oil pump drive gears.

oops

[chriss]

Been to malchomes got new shaft oil seals and gasgets cleaned oil pump just need to clean out the sump then hopefully get back together

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Chris
How are the bearings? Any slack or graunching? If in doubt, it would be a good idea to replace them. You wouldn't want to revisit this part of the engine for the sake of the cost of the bearings.
Best
Adrian

[chriss]

Hi adrian, I think bearings ok but will check but I think malchome would have said if not as he put them on the shaft for me I've had one grandson here he,s gone home now but got another one Monday so not much chance to do much but will put the rope seal in oil to soak tomorrow

[AdrianNPMajor]

Hi Chris
If bearings get good lubrication, they should be fine. Just wondering about the one closer to the injection pump. This one is protected by a dust/oil seal. Ingress of dust after nearly sixty years is possible, maybe even likely. The other bearing has spent its life inside the timing cover, so I wouldn't be so worried about that one.
Best
Adrian

[chriss]

finaly got rusty back together, well enough to be able to start, a bit of adjustment to the timeing and away it went with my dads help he's 81 and can't keep away from tactors[img]http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a571/chriss1959/image_zpsef7b1006.[URL=http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/chriss1959/media/image_zps88ccd45a.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a571/chriss1959/image_zps88ccd45a.jpg[/img]jpg[/img][/url]s[

[henk]

[Matt in WI]

Well done Chris