Won’t start without spray

[ericcullen]

Have just reconditioned my 1958 diesel Dexta. It won’t start unless I use spray through air intake. I have new fuel tap, old one was a push button pump which sprays into the intake manifold. Someone made mention of a choke. It may seem like a stupid question, but where would this choke be located, if it exists at all.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bensdexta]

No choke on a diesel Dexta.
Have you serviced the fuel injection pump and the injectors?
In summertime you shouldn't need the heater or fuel primer - should just fire up.

[ericcullen]

Had the pump serviced, but not the injectors. Once it runs it goes well.

Thanks

[Bensdexta]

Had the pump serviced, but not the injectors. Once it runs it goes well.

Worth getting them serviced if they've not been checked in the last year or two. Take them to a diesel shop, they will check them very quickly.

Worth checking the timing also - just have a peak through the windows on the pump & flywheel - see manual.

[scoobyjim]

agree with the injectors service but double check the timing also, could be a few degrees out making starting difficult

[ianpdexta]

When you say spray, I assume you mean from an aerosol can such as Easy Start or other source of ether. While it works and I've used it myself in the dim and distant past, we really shouldn't use it. They say that engines get addicted to it and they do, because it can cause damage a) by washing the oil off the cylinder walls and b) the conrods can be bent by the ether exploding too soon before top dead centre.

The original cold start arrangment is much better, where fuel is ignited in the manifold and the hot air / flame is drawn in to the cylinders.

These engines should be good starters so the points already posted should lead you to success. Good luck with it.

Regards

Ian

[Vulgunx]

I had the same problem with it not starting without some spray
If the tractors runs fine when it gets running its just finding it hard to get off sniff (Spray)
we put a 12v battery on the tractor+jumped onto the landrover defender+4pumps of fuel and putting the blowtorch on the intake manifold it will take a few turns but eventually she will fire
it wont be start 5 times like this its all fixed we did it 4-5 times a week doing the same thing over and over until it came to the point it would start with just 40seconds of heat without any fuel pumped into the manifold
and now shes runs fine without spray needs some heat on a cold day ofc but she runs smoothly

[Brian]

The Dexta engine is not a direct injection diesel and is designed to be started by igniting a diesel spray in the intake manifold. If they start without heat or spray then that is a bonus and not what they are designed to do. The flame in the intake manifold is extremely important for ease of starting and was the same on all Perkins derived engines. Ether starting will destroy the engine causing broken rings, bent con rods and cracked pistons.

I would get your cold start system working as soon as possible. It is possible to use a modern heater plug with a valve in it to control the flow of fuel onto the heater element but you will need to set up a diesel source. I see in Tractor Magazine that one Dexta owner has mounted a small canister and tops it up with diesel, rather than connecting it into the fuel system.

[ianpdexta]

Now I'm confused Brian, in the 'red' world the 3 cylinder Perkins engines start very well unlike their 4 cylinder stable mate. Does the Dexta have a different head to 'red' tractors with a Perkins 3/152 engine?

Regards

Ian

[sky blue]

im afraid in the red world the 35 ect has a heater or cold start as well
the engines are very simular,there is no noticeable differance at first glance but
there is alittle bit ,fordson made the castings and perkings made the smaller bits
but they both need aheater to start in cold weather and some now after 50 or so years
even after rebuild to start in warmer weather good luck sky blue

[ericcullen]

Thanks guys, your all legends with good information. All I will do, in particular putting back the feed to the manifold. I hope I can be of assistance to you guys in the future, but my knowledge is limited compared to most of you gentlemen.

[oldcharlie]

You should NEVER use that starter spray! The ether will break the rings and bust pistons. If you just have to use something use a gas oil mixture like you use in two strokes. Put some on a clean rag and hold over Intake cover. I just rebuilt my motor and it had all the rings broken on one cylinder and the skirts were broken off another piston. Yes I used starter fluid regularly in the winter. I will not do that again!

[russelm]

The heater mods Ben talks of are Thermostarts:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

We have them on an old Sanderson T2 (Ford BSD444 engine ala 6610's etc), Sanderson All terrain Forklift (Ford BSD333 engine ala 4610's etc) JCB 3C (Leyland 4/98 engine) and a Cat forklift (perkins 3 cylinder diesel) and they work very well and would be a good solution if your primer on the fuel tap is past its best. On these setups they fit a little reservoir in the fuel leak of pipe circuit like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Massey-Fergus ... 2a2f90ac62

It keeps some of the return fuel for the thermostart and sits slightly higher than the thermostart to provide a gravity feed (for a fresh build you need to manually ad some fuel to the reservoir obviously).

Works very well, press and hold the heat button for 30 seconds and off you go.

[PghBill]

The fuel tap ( atomizer in the US) was missing when I got my Super. After blowing up a piston using easy start, I rebuilt the engine and I installed a heater plug from a Ferguson that has a bi-metallic fuel valve built in that opens when the heater plug gets hot and closes when it cools. Don't need any type of reservoir or extra piping. Fits right in. Went a little farther and added a time delay relay that keeps my heater plug on for 60 seconds after i hit the heater button. Frees up my left hand to hit the primer while cranking. Works great !
Mine won't start without heat !

[Jerry Coles]

Saw this modification at Hullavington years ago!
Just fire up a gas blowlamp, open the valve and turn her over!! Simples!
[URL=http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]
Regards
Jerry

[oldcharlie]

What is that piped into , the air intake?

[Jerry Coles]

Heater removed and elbow screwed in (standard pipe thread?), a gate valeve and a metal cup fitted. Point the flame into the cup and turn her over!
Jerry

[oldcharlie]

I have no idea where the heater was or maybe is on my 1963 Super Dextra! the only thing still working on the dash is the temperature gauge.

[sky blue]

the primer fuel tap is under fuel tank left/hand side, this works in conjuncion with
a heater switch on dash if any or both have been removed or changed as some parts
have over the years then they have to be replace for the heater system to work
properly. the heater switch is suppose to be on bottom right hand side of dash
under horn button , if they are all shot or gone then
its best to start to replace them or rig up some sort of heater system, as has been decribed
on here, to help starting

[russelm]

The fuel tap ( atomizer in the US) was missing when I got my Super. After blowing up a piston using easy start, I rebuilt the engine and I installed a heater plug from a Ferguson that has a bi-metallic fuel valve built in that opens when the heater plug gets hot and closes when it cools. Don't need any type of reservoir or extra piping. Fits right in. Went a little farther and added a time delay relay that keeps my heater plug on for 60 seconds after i hit the heater button. Frees up my left hand to hit the primer while cranking. Works great !
Mine won't start without heat !

That's a Thermostart device

[ericcullen]

I eventually came up with another different approach. I use an out- board motor fuel bulb. I use some fuel line both sides, one into the jar containing diesel and the other connected to the manifold. I squeeze the pump a couple of times and it pumps in around the manifold heater. Heat it up for a short time and it starts %100 every time. I am still looking for a permanent solution, but this does the job.