Fuel pump

[Dazo1960]

Hi all I am a newbie to the site I have a 1958 fordsonajor which has been 90 percent refurbished the tractor turns over but can not bleed the fuel system. The fuel is getting as far as the inlet to the pump from the fuel filter I have cracked off all the fuel pipes but to no avail any one any ideas whT to do next. I have taken the plate off the side of the pump and turned the engine over and all the plungers are moving cheers darryl

[oehrick]

Hi Darryl

Also have a '58 Major

Have you bled the pump itself ? its the hex screw on top / front of pump (when facing pump sideways on) on the angled bit, slacken rather than remove and pump with the lever under the glass bowl until the bubbles stop, you'll not bleed by slackening the injector feed pipes although I do tend to crack the upper unions if anything other than fuel starvation at the pump.

Dont panic if you get no movement from the lever, turn the engine over a bit so it comes off the drive cam (yup, including the tee shirt )

Good luck, look forward to hearing it has roared into life again.

[Dazo1960]

Thanks rick I was wondering what that hex nut was for will let you know how I go on thanks darryl

[Dandy Dave]

That why ol Dandy Dave works in a Speedo and on warm days. No t shirts turned to rags that way. Yup, it will take a little cranking to get the air out even after you crack the feed pipes to the bleeders. Get your Battery charger out and hook it up. When you start to see white smoke out of the exhaust, your close. Dandy Dave!

[Dazo1960]

Finally bled the fuel pump and got fuel spitting out of the top of the feed pipes but no white smoke and will not start any one got any ideas I tried a sniff of easy start she fired up but died more or less straight away thanks darryl

[henk]

Could it be the adjustment on the front of the pump or the screw on at the back for the cold start?

[Brian]

Your post under this one indicates that your pumping elements are or have been stuck. If these are not working or have been damaged by rust you are not going to build up the 2000 + psi needed to lift the injector needle of the seat and get fuel into the cylinders. That is why you will get no white smoke even though you have fuel in the lines.

The other reason could be that the delivery rack in the pump is stuck. With the side plate off, try a screwdriver in the rack and move it from side to side.

Until you have sorted out the pump you will get nothing.

[Dazo1960]

The rack is moving freely and all plungers are now moving freely after coating the with wd 40 I think the problem is with the injectors

[Brian]

If you pull an injector you can put it on the pipe from the pump, make sure it is pointing away from you and crank the engine with the starter. It should spray a very fine mist with a sharp "ping" noise. If all the injectors spray then they should be OK.

You cannot really service them without the proper tools and, as with the pump, if you try and "fly" it you can damage your engine.

WARNING!
The mist from the injectors looks pretty harmless but will penetrate any exposed skin it come in contact with. This will result in possible amputation of the affected parts.

[anthonygos]

Finally bled the fuel pump and got fuel spitting out of the top of the feed pipes but no white smoke and will not start any one got any ideas I tried a sniff of easy start she fired up but died more or less straight away thanks darryl

After you bled the pump did you bled the injectors.? undo the pipes near the injectors turn over engine until you see fuel from each pipe,
refit push the cold button in it should start up.

[henk]

Theres no need to get the air out of these pipes because they are after the pressure line. It will take a vew turns of the engine to get started because the first diesel needs some time to get to the injector.

[anthonygos]

see other post below

[anthonygos]

Theres no need to get the air out of these pipes because they are after the pressure line. It will take a vew turns of the engine to get started because the first diesel needs some time to get to the injector.

Well if you read the manual it say's "quote" Close the bleed screws, then loosen the injector pressure line connecting nuts at the injectors, be sure fuel shut-off button is pushed in and crank engine until fuel flows free of air from the loosened connections.
Tighten the fuel injector line connections and crank engine.

But if you want to kill your battery, and may never start it, then do it your way...!

[Pavel]

Mr. Anthonygos; sir:
May I ask what your understanding of the designation "fuel shut-off button" means? Mine is that, by utilising it, fuel cannot be delivered to the injectors and, thus, the engine will not start; or, if already running, will stop. That being the case, how is it possible to bleed the connecting pipes between the delivery pump and the injectors with the 'button' activated?
Both the earliest Fordson Major owner's manual and the 1960s one for the Super Major have no suggestion that the nuts securing the pipes to the injectors should be loosened and bled. Neither does the 1963 overhaul manual, which includes updates for all the Majors, demand this operation.

In 2009, when I did a major top-end overhaul, which included cleaning and re-calibrating the injectors, I had no problem with flat batteries, or the initial starting, because of adhering to the procedures outlined in the manual.

Whilst I would agree that, in theory, with air [a gas] being compressible, and therefore unable to impart enough pressure to open the injector pintles; that is not always the case -- petrol fuel injection rarely, if ever, requires bleeding [at least not on the 3 injected cars I have, after replacing fuel filters!].

May I here suggest that, when, or whilst, disagreeing with others, you are a little more circumspect with your phraseology? This is a friendly, as well as a helpful, forum!

Pavel.

[anthonygos]

What I should have said was the excess fuel control button which is near the stop lever, and as for " no suggestion that the nuts securing the pipes to the injectors should be loosened and bled" I suggest you read more, I am a retired agricultural mechanic and worked on many of them for over the last 40 odd years, if my help here is not welcome or not wanted, I can easily‎ leave.

[Pavel]

Whilst I am certain that your professional experience would be nothing but an asset to this forum, I was merely suggesting, diplomatically I had hoped, that you don't 'rubbish' [as we call it here in Oz] the suggestions of other experienced members if it conflicts with your own.

Unfortunately the page you posted was not complete: was it from an official Ford Motor Company publication or from one of the Chilton bibles? I seem to remember we had a couple of these at NIAE where I worked in the early 70s -- very helpful they were too, at times.

Pavel

[anthonygos]

Well maybe I was wrong in not stating that the manual wasn't a Ford Dagenham Book (manual), the information that I read come from a I&T Shop Service Manual, the fact is I've seen so many farmers (owners) complane that can't get it to start up when they're have let it run out of fuel, and keep running the battery down by doing so and that was the point I was trying to make, after I have loosen the fuel pipes from the injectors have no problems with it starting, if I do answer any more questions here I'll try and make myself more clear. No disrespect to members was intended.

[super6954]

Well maybe I was wrong in not stating that the manual wasn't a Ford Dagenham Book (manual), the information that I read come from a I&T Shop Service Manual, the fact is I've seen so many farmers (owners) complane that can't get it to start up when they're have let it run out of fuel, and keep running the battery down by doing so and that was the point I was trying to make, after I have loosen the fuel pipes from the injectors have no problems with it starting, if I do answer any more questions here I'll try and make myself more clear. No disrespect to members was intended.

Hi To be honest half those I&t manuals are useless, Brian here personally hates them and I kinda agree nowI didn't use to, they give most guys just enough info to get them in trouble on some stuff, if not mechanicaly inclined .

I tried flow/pressure testing JD 1830 tractor hyds with the I&T book for a customer here, couldn't make sense of It as I felt I was missing something big with this and it's symptoms ,so got a genuine Deere book . The reason it didn't make sense was 1/2 of the test procedure was missing. The whole I&T wasn't as thick as the JD hyd section in their service manual . About the only thing I will use them for now is torque specs or quick reference for some minor things. Anything needing detailed diagnostics the info comes straight from Manufacturers books. whether i buy them, the cost is worth it for correct diagnosis, saving customers money and not waisting my time. Sometimes I can borrow them from friends, or sometimes get the info from helpful dealers were i buy customer parts from to .

As for slackening injector lines, I have had some inline pump motors start right up and some wouldn't until I bled the lines. My county needs the tank removing and flushing. It is one that wont start without doing the lines if it blocks the fuel and stops. It's just one of those stupid things a guy finds once in a while for some reason .
Regards Robert

[anthonygos]

I always slackening injector lines that way I know there is fuel to the injectors, they're always start after that, if you don't fuel at the injectors it will never start, has you all know, and has for the books I find it much better working on them and are there for reference only.